Evil And GOD Cant both Exist. (Page 5)

LiptonCambell
LiptonCambell: But God premits evil to exist- at least you can admit that?
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CoIin
CoIin: The original post on page 1 is more or less correct. Combined with the premises of an omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent creator, the existence of the evil that we see around us constitutes a logically inconsistent framework. And it's not that God could or should "get rid of evil" as the opening post implies; rather IT SHOULDN'T BE HERE AT ALL.

(Similarly, I'm always dumbfounded by the awe the believer expresses to the God who supposedly saved her from some mess: a car wreck or major illness or whatever. Given what you believe about this god, the wreck SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE!)

You can maintain your belief in God if you like, but to be logically consistent, one of the premises has to go. (i.e. God is NOT omnipotent, God is NOT wholly benevolent, etc.)

The religious believer will offer any number of facile justifications for the presence of evil, running a standard gamut from "evil is necessary for learning", "we need evil in order to recognize good" all the way to the hoary old "free will" defence. None of these stand up to logical scrutiny and they can all be, and HAVE BEEN, refuted.

The problem is that the believers don't seem to get the message. First Bill adduces Defence #1 in a certain thread. He is then refuted. Bill either fails to understand the refutation, or else he moves on to a new defence as if the refutation of defence #1 had never occurred. Meanwhile in another thread, Sally is adducing Defence #4. She is refuted too. She also fails to understand the refutation or, like Bill, "moves the goalposts" to yet another unsustainable defence.

And we go round and round in circles. Then we get tired and go to bed. Then we get up and do it all again. And after Defence # 37 is refuted, we go right back to Defence #1.

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Ms_Mafdet_The Great
Ms_Mafdet_The Great: The Japanese have a saying "When your House burns down, you have a clearer view of the moon".
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jimeeze1
jimeeze1: It's funny that I ran across this article for this is what started me on my quest for knowledge...I have read over 2000 scientific and religious books since then.....45 years later I run across this blog.....I asked my preacher why when a bus load of children plummeted to their death off a bridge did god not save them....I was told it was not for me to know....I said how could he allow that and be a kind merciful god .....What I know is that according to your bible....(the king james edition or revised edition)....it says that Lucifer was an angel and was not happy with shepparding us and decided to form his on realm and took half the angels with him....sounds like a whole lot of disgruntle angels.....its just a story about good and evil to keep the masses under control.....if you don't believe in god you can still be a good kind person.....we are god.....we have the power to be unbelievably cruel or kind and considerate of all things that we come in contact with....I don't need an invisible being to know right from wrong or anyone telling me which is which.......let your conscience be your guide and you can't go wrong....
(Edited by jimeeze1)
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LiptonCambell
LiptonCambell: im pretty sure that satans "history" comes from stories outside the bible- like paradise lost. the war between god and angels doesn't appear in the bible does it?
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jimeeze1
jimeeze1: The theory of hell comes from Michael Angelo's depiction of hell as he sees it ....the paintings he did are still burned in our minds....catholic church taught me about purgatory but can't find it in the bible....I have found dozens of discrpencies in the bible! The new and old testements say man was created first then the animals and then the reversed was said...The authors couldn't even agree on that!
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LiptonCambell
LiptonCambell: I've heard the modern depiction of the devil is derived from the European page depiction of God, in an effort to associate their briefs with devil worship

YouTube

(Edited by LiptonCambell)
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jimeeze1
jimeeze1: That was a really informative video.....I wish they would bring witch hunting back...I have a X girlfriend I would like to point the finger at....hehhehe
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: In the Old Testament Satan was an angel of God, not His opponent and Lucifer wasn't an angel at all, just a fallen Babylonian king. As for the war in Heaven you'll find a mention of it in Revelation 12:7-9.
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LiptonCambell
LiptonCambell: Actually, in Part 2, he talks about the return of the modern witch hunt- in part to do with the internet.
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wayne elliott
wayne elliott: Evil and goodness do exist in this realm because it is not just a school, and not just because humans have free will, but because it is a realm of duality - everything has an opposite and a myriad of choices in between. The individual will choose what is appropriate for their level of learning.
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melicool
melicool: To be an expert in what is good we have to be expert in what is wrong. Light and darkness complément themselves
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wayne elliott
wayne elliott: Yes one cannot exist here without the other.
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LiptonCambell
LiptonCambell: so then we should tolerate and accept the existence of evil? Child rapists and murderers- aren't you saying they exist so that good people exist, and without these terrible people, we wouldn't have good people?

Sounds like that's a philosophy that needs evil to exist as a counter.
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wayne elliott
wayne elliott: They are realities of this world, this realm which is a school of learning through cause and effect, action reaction. The reality of the soul realm is the sum of your actions and learning. As for the "terrible people" you should not be judging them
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: I see more than 3,400 Catholic priests have been punished for child abuse in the past ten years. If the men of God can't be trusted to do the right thing then I guess God and evil can coexist very happily indeed.
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wayne elliott
wayne elliott: Great point ghostgeek. The men of God have a great deal to answer for - their crimes are the ultimate betrayal of childhood innocence. I wonder if any recieved lengthy prison sentences...
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ghostgeek
ghostgeek: Only 848 of those priests were defrocked, the rest being given lesser sanctions. I guess that means one or two might be doing serious time in some cushy cell somewhere.
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wayne elliott
wayne elliott: Religion considers itself above the laws that govern the rest of us. Those in their flocks who have stood by and done nothing should hang their heads in shame.
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jimeeze1
jimeeze1: If you check; all wars have been started over religion....my god can kick your gods ass....the first thing I was told in the military was god was on my side; to which I replied....which god
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LiptonCambell
LiptonCambell: What about World War 2? Or World War 1?
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jimeeze1
jimeeze1: I don't know what world war three will be fought with; but I bet world war 4 will be fought with sticks and stones!
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jimeeze1
jimeeze1: I had to write a report in 1970 as part of my graduation thesis on the red menace....I asked what the hell was that; and was told it was about that evil Russian Empire of godless peeps...so I assumed being godless made you evil....I have come a long way since then.
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wayne elliott
wayne elliott: Now its Nth Korea
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TinkersDamn
TinkersDamn: Evil And God Cannot Both Exist.
True enough
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