there are NO inherent human behaviours. We LEARN to act the way we do.

MattyD89
MattyD89: If you have ANY agrument with this statement. You obviously don't know how to observe you're surroundings. Do you think if as a baby right after birth you were put in a reindeer farming mongolian family that lived where it would takes weeks just to get to by any means of travell once you even reach Mongolia that you would be ANYTHING like you are now? you would 100% have the belifs of your small mongolian family. there would be no inherent nature to get as much money as possible where money doesnt even exist?(money doesnt exist they liteally 100% live off thier 10-20 reindeers by means of thier milk, and through drinking water from the river. would there be the inherent nature to do better then the person next to you? when these thngs do not exist in our nature, they do not exist withn ourself. and still if you have any arguement please take the next at least hour of your time and listen to ANY of the media files with Jaqu Fresco on this link. If you are too lazy to even take that time then really it shows how ignorant you are and dont even take the time to look at a differnt side that actualy has factual statements and evidence to support them that make sense if you gave them a chance.


http://thevenusproject.com/get-involved/media-archives
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Mike_Greene_Jr
Mike_Greene_Jr: well, I agree w/ u, just dont think we can say, like, 100% sure... for instance, the moro reflex that babies have, or babinsky, or a better example here, suction(sp?)? like, babies dont need to learn how to suck the mil outta mommy's breats, they already know that, hence it being called a reflex. But, it's also a behavior. I think that more complex behavior, like operant behaviors, such as, idk, the things we like to eat, or driving a car, or w.e, it's learned, yes. But, we can't forget that genetics does has its part on our life. Like, let's take an extreme case, go for schizophrenia, ppl with sum1 with that mental disorder in the family do have an increased amount of possibility of developing that disorder in life. Doesnt mean they will for sure, but, due to environmental issues, they might, such as, having a parent w. schizophrenia, it enhances the possibility both by the genetics an individual got, as well as living w. that parent, and being raised by them. of course, there r studies that show that even identical twins might not both develope such disorder, I mean, one does, and the other one doesnt, that being reaised in different families and all that.
So, I guess that what Im trying to say is that we are children of our environment (after all, I am a behavioral psychologiest ), but, we always have to take into consideration that some people have a predesposition for certain illness, disorders, and such things.
I hope I expressed myself right, cause, I do agree with you, ya know?
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MattyD89
MattyD89: I hear where you are comming from. I think in RARE cases our biological assest such as our DNA has something to do with humans. But if your brain is "properly" working then our conscience MINDS (Something we know NOTHING about, not the brain, the MIND) make our enviorment 100% affecting our thought process. Only our physical attributes account for our differences such as height wieght skin colour ect. buuuut at the same time its only because our enviorment produces those thoughts to be produced. like say everyone was born black, fat, and a midget with 1 leg and no arms then that would be normal, but since its not that one, someone born like that it will affect them, but in reality its our enviormnt affecting them, not them.
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Mike_Greene_Jr
Mike_Greene_Jr: yeah, I hear ya, I understand that, but, u need to take into consideration that when we talk about special needs, the specific needs is sumthing that affect the person as an individual... for instance, blind ppl will feel the world in a different way than not blind ppl, such thing goes for any other person with a special need (deaf, paraplegic, etc.)
I have watched a documentary that shows a family with, like, 7 kids I think can't remember exactly the number, where ALL of the kids had sum kind of autism (from asperger's to rett's) and that was clearly a cause of the environment they were in. Their parents were copmpletely undifferent to them, like, changing diapers of the little one's for instance, or feeding, they did everything too mechanical, w/o that common interaction of mother-baby, like, baby talk and all that shit. and, the house and the parents per se were totally and completly unorganazied. nothing where it is supposed to be, the kitchen was a mess, every room had toys everywhere, and clothes, nd w.e... like the walls were all full of "drawings" from the kids... like, kids w. autism need the most organized environment the parents can give, and the school as well. So, that documentary did prove these kids had autism because of their environment, however, we cannot say that for every kid out there, cause, if that was the fact, as soon as we put the kid in an enviornment which is different than that, it would "cure" autism, u know what I mean?
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MattyD89
MattyD89: of course not. but that I think is in the 1% of humans really on this planet. as well if our enviorment was better, and we used the technology we had and people were HEALTHIER ALL AROUND. so the enviorment of healthy AND intelligent humans is say increased by 95% (which IS POSSIBLE) that number would go down to nealry 0
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Mike_Greene_Jr
Mike_Greene_Jr: I think it's way more than one percent, man... it's not sumthing that uncommon... I think that we always have to remember that it's genetics and the environment, they dont coexist paralel to each other, they are always interacting... That's worth for the three corner stones of behavioral psychology, filogenetics, ontogenetics, and culture, they are always interacting, and dont exist paralel to each other, ya know?
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MattyD89
MattyD89: well really how many people are born metally disabled due to genetic features around the WHOLE world? I think some, but in most cases besides the states and europe n such die at birth or as young babies making it much less uncomming then here. in the whole world i dont think its more then 1% and if our enviorment was changed it would be much less
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MattyD89
MattyD89: the mind and human brains are a peice of glay, and our enviroment is the sculpter
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MattyD89
MattyD89: Please lsiten to the second auido on that link i posted its really great. ive been foloowing this guy for years hes a veyr veyr veyr smart man
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MattyD89
MattyD89: long but worth it.
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Mike_Greene_Jr
Mike_Greene_Jr: hmmm... well, actually, Im a very lazy person... I have, however, studied psychology for 5 years, and the debate of genetics agains environment is pretty huge in it... so, I know both sides, and it's never a good thing to be an extremist and say that only one of them is right... I read books, saw lectures, read articles, wrote papers and all about this, so... I know that taking only one or the other into consideration is not a good thing.
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MattyD89
MattyD89: It used to be wrong to say that the Earth wasn't flat. Human knownledge changes. For 99% of the Earth, okay maybe 95-99% their enviorment is what creates them. You don't need to not be lazy to lsiten to this man. For the last 90 years ofthis mans lfie he has dedicated his time to human behaviour. If you could just find a good biography on him you'd fall over. since he was seven he was looking teo improve things and learn about people and why they are who they are. hes even joined the klu kluux klan just to see how they acutaly were. and then within 3 weeks had every member quit the clan just by giving them proper knowlegde and information rather then what they had been around thier whole life which was just mass nonesense.
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Mike_Greene_Jr
Mike_Greene_Jr: well, that's really cool, and I get that he's really good. But, what we learn in college, dont take what one person says as the uncontestable truth. as in, earth flat or round, earth or sun the centre of the universe, and all other kindda stuff... also includes any theory in psychology, such as what we're discussing. I do think that we need to have a basis that we can rely on, such as behaviorism, to me, or psychoanalysis to sum1 else, or client centered therapy to others, among so many other theories in psychology, but, when it comes to research, scientists are always doing and redoing it that we're always finding out new things.
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MattyD89
MattyD89: in my opinion we NEED to stop trying to fix the individuals. we need to FIX the enviorment. why the gov have armies of killers? we should have armies of trianed thinkers given proper knolwdge and taught to learn and think of new ways to help people and make the world a better place. we have the tehcnolgy now to live without money and make an enviorment that would eleminate near ALL bad or dysfunctional behaviour. BUT religion, poiltics, and money are in the way right now which i dont know if will ever end
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Mike_Greene_Jr
Mike_Greene_Jr: Yeah, I know what u mean there...

but, to reach out to a whole culture, or to a whole society, that is not an easy thing... that's why what we can do, as thereapists, is, most of the times, fixing the mistakes society has done to individuals... and, "fixing" the individual, maybe that one person will do sumthing, that will change another, and so on, and maybe we'll "fix" so many as to change society... idk...
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MattyD89
MattyD89: I 100% agree there. within our enviorment now we need people to hlep fix individuals. but if as a whole we were more intellegent beings at knowing what best for us as a whole with the technology we now poses and things we now know then we most likely wouldnt need any. which would be great
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Mike_Greene_Jr
Mike_Greene_Jr: yes, except that we're not, so... we can only do what we can...
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MattyD89
MattyD89: yup but still that proves the fact that humans are producs of our enviorment. you jsut agreed with what you were agrueing before.
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Mike_Greene_Jr
Mike_Greene_Jr: no, I didnt. I didnt change my mind, I agreed that we could change more if we focused on society as a whole, but it's not a possible thing at the moment. I have done social psychology internships, and internships at schools, and I've also done clinical psychology inernships, and what I can get from that is... well, it is much easier to act on the individual then on a group of people as big as a society, i.e. a whole school, even so because there are things that are wrong at the school and r problematic for the learning of the students that get out of our hands, such as the teachers professional learning, and government rules to schools and such things... so, what we can do is try to act on small groups of students or teachers or w.e and try to change them, but we're never gonna trully change everything, cause it is impossible, it's out of out hands (speaking as a psychology professional)
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MattyD89
MattyD89: I agree with you there. But at the same time, if the enviorment was changed to create a better place for everyone, then near everyone would be better, and this just goes to show we are prods of our enviorment. Right now things and peopls are fw$^&@ up because our enviorment is f@xy&@ up in many ways, and really for most people, unless you are very.
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WhiteWee
WhiteWee: I don't know if anyone has mentioned this one yet but what about smiling? Smiling is a human behaviour that we all inherent. For proof, consider people who are blind since birth and yet smile like the rest of us. Stevie Wonder is one case.
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MattyD89
MattyD89: its a facial expression that is a cause from a mental thought. sort of conditioned really. you know helen keller couldnt see or hear and elarn to write and talk some what. still it was learnt. smililing is a conditioned facial expression as a responce to some type of stimulous.
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Mike_Greene_Jr
Mike_Greene_Jr: yes, there are what are called rspondant behaviours, like, reflexes, and such, smiling, crying, all those things no one needs to teach us....

and, I still think it is wat more than one percent... lol
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Mike_Greene_Jr
Mike_Greene_Jr: no, what we smile for and what we cry for is conditioned, but the act of smiling is not conditioned.
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MattyD89
MattyD89: but its learnd. just how your brain learns to move your arm to pick something up, it will learn to smile when gien the reason to do so. if it was inherent everyone would smile from the same thing. but thats not the case. some smile when seeing someone die. some smile when saving a life.
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Mike_Greene_Jr
Mike_Greene_Jr: exactly what I said, dude... what we smile about is learned, but the act of smiling, moving the muscles and stuff is inherent... same for crying, babies cry when they're hungry, nobody taught them that, did they?
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