freedom (Page 2)

flashie: ill agree to that mate.

Awake335: free? not in this life time, maybe in another dimension

Nonlucid: Freedom it's self is a relative term. Causation dictates that the event leading from the start of the universe, all the way up to today are merely cause an effect; this atom a collides with atom b and causes reaction x. When you break it down, we are really just a collection of atoms that "decided" by circumstance to work together for a while.

Thought is made up of a series of "experiences", each moment broken down into it's own "frame" like a reel to reel movie. Your brain processes these frames and stores them in a network for later reference. When you are faced with a decision with two options of reaction, your brain refers to this data bank of experiences to find out which relate more to option A, likewise with option B. Whichever creates more relative impulses dictates the option you "pick".

In this context, applied in universal terms (i.e. butterfly effect, etc...) your "free" decision was dictated long before you were born.

As for the comments on entropy, this is universal, thermodynamic law, but the collapse of smaller systems, does not necessarily denote a flaw in the universal system. In chaos theory, they find that if you step back far enough, and study the pattern on a larger scale, there is still order, it's just too complicated for our primitive minds.

If you bring string theory into the equation, the different vibrations of connected and unconnected "strings" seems to suggest something akin to a universal binary code that dictates what type of quark is made, causation takes over from there.

All of this does seem to suggest a universal order eerily akin to the "Tao". But what does this say about our so called "free will"? This is a tricky situation, because nature seems to say that our thoughts were dictated long before we were in the picture. It seems that, relative to the universe, we have no free will. But, the fact that we cannot see the greater picture, or even consciously acknowledge the processing of our thoughts implies that, relative to ourselves, we do have freedom of thought, if only because of our limited perceptions.

I apologize for the long-winded rant, I just thought that a discussion of freedom should address what free will actually is. From here, I would love to go into a psycho-sociological ramble about what human nature is, what it should be, and what our freedoms should be designed around, compared to what they are... But I digress, I do believe that I've said much more than my share.

MattyD89: There is no such thing as freedom for ANY living being. It is only a fantasy. Utopia. But it is impossible. The closest way to being free is accepting the walls around you.

Not matter what any life form does it is never free. It will always be consticted in some form due to enviormental factors just to stay alive even.

StarAhau: If the physical body isn't free the mental mind can be so you're as free as you like to be...Stephen Hawking (mathematician and theoretical cosmology Quantum Gravity written works) can't be as mobile as he would like but his mind travels in many directions in the Universe.

virginkiss: yes, but, as i've said before- what about the people whose minds do resrict them? or thier minds and their bodies? what freedom can someone have if they can choose nothing for themselves?
-VK

MattyD89: like isiad. you can think youre free all you want. but in true reality no one, or no living thing can be "free"

MattyD89: stephan hawkin has made his mind beleive him to be free because of his crazy restrictions. charles manson does the same thing (stuck in solitary confinment for LIFE) - watch his interviews on it - same shit different a~x@y#w.

Sora_noir: Freedom..... Ha there is no such thing. With all the chains put on us by society there is no way that you will ever truely be free.

MattyD89: by society? what about by our own bodies?

we must eat, stay away from desiese, stay healthy, and still ultimatly we die,

Sandrasp333: you're free to consume,pay your taxes,public proprety isn't public at all,corporate legislation is beein paid for because legislation is 4 sale these days! don't care if u don't agree