freedom WabbitStew: are we ever truly free? there are laws that try to govern, curb or control our actions, yes there are 'rules' laid down by society which make things 'socially unacceptable', yes but even if those laws and rules were to be taken away are we free? what does freedom even mean? is it the ability to follow all our natural desires without retribution or recourse? is it the ability to do as we wish no matter the consequence? is it being able to speak our minds freely and openly regardless of how that may impact on others? or if we do just that are we merely slaves to our own nature? held captive and controlled by our own impulses? Is that freedom? "WARNING - you have been exposed to fuzzy wabbit logic. do not be alarmed, just make your way to the nearest exit as quickly and calmly as possible" or stay and put forth your opinion the choice is yours  WabbitStew:  too true writer man!thinkin maybe i should post this in general might get more responses? lol  BigG_2_5: there are to many boundaries some people dont even know they exist but there still there. The only place we can truly be free is in our minds. so enjoy what we got haha! WabbitStew: even in our minds there are boundaries - self imposed ones perhaps - present nonetheless blonde goddess: we are stuck only by our own self made limitations. we have the ability to free ourselves at any moment. we can do this at any time, just by changing our thoughts. flashie: free·dom (frdm) n. 1. The condition of being free of restraints. 2. Liberty of the person from slavery, detention, or oppression. 3. a. Political independence. b. Exemption from the arbitrary exercise of authority in the performance of a specific action; civil liberty: freedom of assembly. 4. Exemption from an unpleasant or onerous condition: freedom from want. 5. The capacity to exercise choice; free will: We have the freedom to do as we please all afternoon. 6. Ease or facility of movement: loose sports clothing, giving the wearer freedom. 7. Frankness or boldness; lack of modesty or reserve: the new freedom in movies and novels. 8. a. The right to unrestricted use; full access: was given the freedom of their research facilities. b. The right of enjoying all of the privileges of membership or citizenship: the freedom of the city. 9. A right or the power to engage in certain actions without control or interference: "the seductive freedoms and excesses of the picaresque form" (John W. Aldridge). ^i thought in general a good answer  MaryJane00: I do not belive any person today may atain absoulute freedom, although I do belive its possible to come pretty darn close. MnFriends:): i dont realy know what is freedom. I only know that now i have m freedom, i m free in m net world. I am happy to have this. Coz all m life full of rules . N i m very happy coz i found n join ths wireclub  LiptonCambell: http://www.isil.org/resources/introduction.swf This says it far better than I ever couldrincples of Liberty. Enjoy.  FogofWar: Freedom is the natural Way. To be in accordance with nature is to be truly free. To impede with the force of nature is unnatural; and is the Sinister Way. This is the principle philosophy of Japanese Zen. Many spend their lives trying to find this freedom; but in doing so, they are enslaving themselves to their journey; and are not free. A man was walking down the street; he came across a small shop and asked the man outside: "Do you know the way?" The shop master replied, "There is no way". The man said, "I understand" To be free from thought is to have no thought. To think of having no thought; is a thought. To the free mind, in meditation; thought is a sickness. To think about sickness is a sickness. To think about nothing is a sickness. To be truly free from thought; one must not think about not thinking; one must learn to achieve thoughtlessness; only then can one not think. Zen is an art that is taught; to be forgotten. "The Way without way, technique without technique" -Bruce Lee. Only upon not seeking to find one's freedom, can one truly become free. This is the Way; but it is only achieved by not having a way; "The way without way." Martial arts have been used as a grounds for learning this Way by monks of Bhuddism, Shinto, Tao, and Zen Bhuddism for thousands of years in some cases. The art of learning the techniques (Tae Kwon Do, Karate, Jeet Kune Do, Pi Qua Quan, She Quan, etc. etc. etc.) is to be able to act without having to think...to react naturally. A carpenter does not focus on the hammer in his hand when hitting the nail; if he did, he would miss the nail. He focuses on the nail; and the hammer becomes a part of him. "Technique without technique". Now, those of you who know Me from the political posts will seem shocked at this response from Me. I have studied zen for several years now; as shocking as that may seem. The ability to understand this; is the understanding of Zen. This is known in Zen as your Zen awakening. The principle idea of Zen is that through repeated practice; one learns to act without having to think about it....this is Zen. To learn to free your mind; to be spiritually connected to nature; is to achieve Zen. This is freedom. If you seek to understand Zen on your own; I reccommend that you read the workings of Head of Samurai counsel to the Emperor of Japan Yagyu Munenori (1571 - 1646): Martial Arts: The Book of Family Traditions, and the official Zen master to the Emperor of Japan master Takuan (1573 - 1645): The Inscrutable Subtlety of Immovable Wisdom; and Tai-A Ki: Notes on the Peerless Sword. All three of these can be found in an excellent translation by Thomas Cleary: The Soul of the Samurai, published by Tuttle books. FogofWar: Now; as far as freedom is concerned in a governing body: A nation must be subject to laws in order to maintain a balance of freedom and rights. To live as freely as possible in a large society like our current world; then one must be able to protect their rights and freedoms. As everyone is entitled to the right to live; there must be laws inplace to protect those rights. This creates a judicial system to maintain laws to protect rights; and in doing so, limits one's freedoms in this regard. In order to have human rights; one must have the security of those rights; and this requires law. This in turn, required law enforcement, to protect the laws within an empire; and militant enforcement, to protect the laws from outside the empire. The goal of our society is not to achieve total freedom. To have total freedom would mean no rights. To have too many rights means lesser freedom. The goal of our society is to find and achieve a healthy balance between freedom and rights; and this is were individual thought and free will create a problem as well. It is what seperates parts of nations; and what causes international tension. In order to maintain such a balance; we must become active, but mature, members of our political society; and this is an impossibility with the level of greed in our society. Everyone is striving for more freedom; while violating others' rights to achieve this. To live free; but in harmony with the rest of society; we must learn to abide by the laws that rule our freedoms. Remember; Sparta was held in regard as the most free society on Earth in it's time; but it also had the strictest laws. john1576: F.D.Roosevelt. 'Four Freedoms', Freedom of Religion. Freedom of Speech. Freedom from Want. Freedom from Fear. LiptonCambell: >>>As everyone is entitled to the right to live; there must be laws inplace to protect those rights. "He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither" ~Ben Franklin >>>Remember; Sparta was held in regard as the most free society on Earth in it's time It was? By who? Sparta had 10 slaves for every "free" person.... virginkiss: Even with governemnt laws and oither such things, whether you let evryone have their own right to think void of laws or not, eventually all this will crumble. I say this from the law of entropy: "any system left to itself will self-desrtuct"...okay, lol, i don't think it says it will self-destruct, but it is something along those lines... freedom really has to be instilled by yourself- i mean, you can't let someone else define your freedoms- you decide (no one comment on that remark who knows what i am doing and y)...ppl coming from a communist society will think of america as free- but people in america feel like we are being trapped by laws, police, and government official. any sayings even regarding freedom are paradoxes: "Freedom is not free" "If you love something, set it free" therez more, but im not diving in2 religion standpts here nywayz, to b trul free is next-to-impossible, bcuz az already stated- even in ur mind ur not free. always,somewhere, their will b some1 there pulling the strings of ur life whichever way they may- you can never even truly govern urslef- even if you live outside the law, then technically you're running from the law, and in that sense, are you rly free? and if u r, can u ever enjoy it? well, wabbit, thts my opinion -VK WabbitStew: thanks for the opinions and thoughts guys freedom seems to be a concept thrown around a lot by people who want to convince themselves and others of something that doesn't really exist. all life is restricted in certain ways .. we are restricted by our own natural capabilities, our own mental acuity.. we're restricted by laws from committing certain acts and by our own emotions and morals which do not allow us to behave in certain ways. many people would have you believe that a lack of freedom is the worst thing that can be inflicted on a person .. it is arguable that misuse of freedoms is a worse crime. It is also arguable that some of the restrictions on our actions, behaviours and even thoughts are actually beneficial to ourselves and others, allowing us to lead a better life? thoughts? virginkiss: ahh-restrictions...not my fave thing 2 deal w/ lol...but, in everyday life, by ppl nd ourselves- we r restricted. we live by our own standards, nd sometimez the subconscience mind prevents u from doing things (for ex. suicide, homocide, stealing...etc.) usually-at lst 4 me- ppl dont like rules. they dont like being told wat they can nd cannot do--but, somehow in this universe, it benefits us. but not all rulez, regulations, or restrictions (did u notice they all begin w/ "r"? lol) r good 4 us. like disabilities of a persons mental state- whether they have multiple personalities, obssessive compulsive, cerebral palsy...- these all restrict them. nd rules set by other ppl, tho mainly serve to benefit, if their intentions r misplaced, it suddenly can bcome harmful. i love 2 contradict myself lol- tht way u get both sidez 2 a story -VK FogofWar: ""He who would trade liberty for some temporary security, deserves neither" ~Ben Franklin" Ben Franklin also understood that in order to live free; one must have the right to live. Therefore there must be laws in place to protect that right. Thus murder is illegal. These are the laws that must be in place to protect those rights. Someone cannot be free to kill another person; without intruding on that other person's rights...hence there must be a balance between rights and freedoms. ">>>Remember; Sparta was held in regard as the most free society on Earth in it's time It was? By who? Sparta had 10 slaves for every "free" person.... " Exactly. That was a different time; and technically speaking their were called servants; but yes they did. In order to live free; then needed others to serve. This was a standard in the world at the time also. Sparta was also not permitted to engage in war unless the oracle gave the king the okay. They had several laws; and yes; their level of 'freedom' was the envy of most other Greek citadels. "all life is restricted in certain ways .. we are restricted by our own natural capabilities, our own mental acuity.. we're restricted by laws from committing certain acts and by our own emotions and morals which do not allow us to behave in certain ways. " No it isn't. You have the freedom to follow your natural capabilities; or not to...you have the freedom to allow your mental acuity define you; or define your mental acuity. You decide to free your mind or not. You decide to let your emotions control your mind or not. You decide what you find morally acceptable; and you have the freedom to abide by; or to break the laws....but you must accept the consequences of your actions. "many people would have you believe that a lack of freedom is the worst thing that can be inflicted on a person .. it is arguable that misuse of freedoms is a worse crime." I would agree to this. Human beings need some law; some structure. In the history of our existence; we have always lived within a structured society; from the ancient civilizations of Rome; Greece, Egypt, Persia, Etruria, etc., to even before then; and small tribal clans...there has always been some form of structure...it is human nature. To have no laws to govern us; ultimately ends up resulting in Somalia...a society that has been in civil war for years; everyone armed and ready to kill; and constantly fighting amongst themselves. I agree that too much freedom can be completely devastating. | Philosophy Chat Room 8 People Chatting Similar Conversations |
