Religion (Page 8)

Zanjan: Yes, it's very odd because nothing happens in a vacuum - there's actually a connection.

You see, the ancients didn't have science so how could they know the two went hand-in-hand? No questions arose for God to address; that's why it's not mentioned in old religious texts.

God released that spate of knowledge - no one would have had it without His permission. The only question is 'why now'? Likewise, He opened the floodgates of spiritual knowledge in that same time frame, putting a lot of distance between *ancient* religion and *new* religion.

Facts, shone on belief made a big difference. Today, there's a plethora of new moral questions that have risen in the scientific field, and these have seriously needed to be addressed. Would God leave us stranded?

Zanjan: Sitting in church with my client, I have to be amused when Christians keep saying God is BIG. Where did they get His size from? If they meant 'important', why would they even have to say it?

When I think about the size of planet earth, compared to our sun, I feel small. When I compare our sun to a bigger sun, like Cannis Majoris (its radius is 2000 times that of our sun) I feel microscopic. You don't even want to imagine how tiny we are when compared to a blue star.

With presence of mind and knowledge of science, it's really hard to feel bigger than any of God's creatures.......except for mosquitoes, despite their well-known importance in the food chain.

Zanjan: Having said that, religion is still not so much a contest of knowledge as it is a test of moral fibre. The stronger the character, the deeper the understanding.

If the stars fell: spam

Nicotina:

If the stars fell: side note, morality and religion are not dependent on one another, and if you think they are, you better be prepared to explain to me the origin of the morality of an atheist. consider the fact that non believers comprise a large portion of the population, but are also one of the least likely to be imprisoned for crimes of violence against others, there is no evidence that being religious makes you more moral, or being none religious makes you less moral.

Zanjan: " explain to me the origin of the morality of an atheist. "

Self-centeredness. It's the opposite of God-centeredness.

Your stats are conveniently invisible. The majority can err as grossly as the few. Try looking up 'children born out of wedlock' vs 'divorce rates'. While you're at it, compare percentage of religious thieves to non-believer thieves. You might be surprised.

Zanjan: What makes you think violence is the worst thing you can do to another person? It's merely a local assault against a physical body. The body heals rather quickly but other offenses can last a lifetime; some may never recover.

Nicotina: ..." Try looking up 'children born out of wedlock' vs 'divorce rates'. "
Oh how we miss the times when women would be ostracized, or worse, simply because they got pregnant.
If only we could go back to when women were chattel and marriage was a contract for the exchange of a human being for land and/or goods. Ah, the good ol' days.

If the stars fell: fun fact, the vast majority of people in the united states that have children out of wedlock are christians, as well as children born to people below the age of 18, by the way most of the people in the usa that get divorced are also christians, perhaps you should look up the statistics yourself lol

Tatrasu 2: must apologise for not keeping up with all the posts of this topic but.....
i think what is important is unity in common

to be united with one group, or cause etc that seeks to seperate there actions from others,,really says we seek someone the same as us?
if this belief or similar,,causes us to define others as(not where we are)
and preceived differences creates disharmony or strife leading to war
we need to seriously ask ourself if the belief stems from love
or a common acceptance of only those who think and talk the same

it has less to do with the image we centre on,,and more to do with the vibration we share with others, our thoughts and feelings are not hidden,even if we are not tuned to receiving,,the energy transends beyond our vibrational energy shell that many choose to believe is mass

they will argue for hours, insult, call people liers,stuped,,but will not spend 10min looking.to see.if facts.could.be correct?
so who really are the advanced when only believing what they already know
and refusing to look for truth?

Cenababy: I may be sick

Zanjan: Nicotina: "the times when women would be ostracized, or worse, simply because they got pregnant. "

Yes, it was so unfair - the men got off scott free! Now we have the pill, welfare, and the deadbeat dad law. Things are just so easy these days. Ironically, most people don't want kids anymore - takes away from the cost of pleasure items and vacations. Just keep it to 1.5 kids or, in the case of the LGBTQXZY community, import some.

"marriage was a contract for the exchange of a human being for land and/or goods."

Heads up - that still exists. Ever heard of trophy wives? Nobody twisted their arms. Gold diggers have staying power. To their credit, these people know when to shut their mouths.

Zanjan: If the stars fell: "most of the people in the usa that get divorced are also christians,"

Again, your stats are invisible. What about the other religions and countries? Would you say the problem is a product of the USA, the Mecca of materialism?

FYI, I didn't look up the statistics because it was you who presented such an imaginative statement.

Zanjan: Tatrasu 2: "to be united with one group, or cause etc that seeks to seperate there actions from others,,really says we seek someone the same as us?"

No, unity refers to cohesiveness; this is required for peace and prosperity in modern times. It means recognizing and embracing *same* truths ie, demonstrates acceptance of diversity while respecting individual uniqueness, eliminates prejudice, and establishes grounds for co-operation on projects for the greater good of humanity.

Each has something special they can contribute - we don't need to push anyone out of the picture. We just have to show them incentive. We start by not looking at the differences but at the values we all say we hold dear.

The first people who have the ability to do this are those who serve the Cause of God - this Cause is ONE spiritual family already. ONE Faith - ONE Book with many chapters. As such, the world looks to them for guidance. God will not forgive those for contesting His desires.

"who really are the advanced...."

Here we go with comparisons again; if you must, look forward from where you stand to get that answer.

Not everyone will be on board with unity. Let them alone because they can't help. They can struggle on without us as they are left behind. Not everyone is fit to ride the crest of the Wave into the future.

Zanjan: For an example, I think back to my dog-breeding days. Very few breeders had integrity but they all had a desire to win in the ring (sameness). Forget what drove their desires (differences); they all said they loved the breed and wanted to see it improved. Yeah? So let's do it then.

We start by figuring out how the breed took its slide: what features does it need to improve? Then we find dogs who have that feature and breed our dog to that dog. Often, it happens that the dog's owners are despicable people; there's just no way you can like them or support the things they do but you need those genes and they have the only compatible specimen.

That requires finding some way to be pleasant to them and strong incentive for them to want to breed to your dog. That means, you must have something they don't. The whole time, one has to be absolutely honest and fulfill their promises. This is the ONLY focus. One doesn't have to pretend to be friends. This is what professionalism means - a win for each business partner.

You will never advance unless you cut the prejudice and keep your eyes on the ball.

tularcitas: My Mom is from French Jewish lineage. Although she was a hippie and never practiced Judaism, she was raised with strong Jewish traditions. One of the tenets of Judaism is 'tikkun olam'....heal the planet...go out into the world and try to make it a better place for everyone, not just Jews. Although obviously not practiced by all Jews, many Jews do adhere to this. Often, Jews are in the forefront of social justice movements...ACLU, Civil Rights, as well as pro-bono medical care in the most needy and impoverished parts of the world. I have also tried to adhere to this policy. Sadly, I have let many personal issues these last few years detract from this, but my goal with my new son is to try to instill this tradition in a gentle, caring way. I know that many religions also try to heal the planet in their own way. I think one of the main problems with religions carrying this out, is that religions often get too caught up in the (as I previously mentioned) the 'us and them' mode...putting a lot of energy into promoting/defending the dogma to which they adhere rather than rising out of this and trying to follow the peaceful, loving intent of the progenitors of these religions.

Zanjan: Jews have done some very good work. Just remember many of their traditions aren't exclusive.
You can't hurt your child by bringing him up in a moderate Jewish community, if that's your wish - more harm is done by not bringing him up in a community.

A friend of mine called herself a "Christian-Muslim". We all know this is impossible but that's the only description she could think of. She was raising her children in BOTH communities, alternating visits between them. Hers was the Christian background while Muslim was the father's background. Naturally, she'd have to temper communal views when answering her children's questions.

I appreciate how she wanted her children to have the fullest possible exposure to religion yet I can't imagine how difficult that would be to shuffle back and forth between groups. In expanding horizons, does one lose something in focus and purpose?

I can tell you it all boils down to this: it's the mother who sets the example for the kids in their early years. She's their first educator. At age 7, the die is cast. So, the mother ought to be fully dedicated to a religious community herself - that's what will impress the child.

If the stars fell: or you could wait until your child is old enough to understand and make their own choice instead of trying to manipulate them into accepting things just because its what YOU want them to believe before they even have the ability to reason and understand.

tularcitas: "more harm is done in not bringing him up in a community"...Zan, perhaps more harm is done in not instilling in him the community of ALL humankind...again, community often promotes an us against other communities consciousness.

Zanjan: ITSF: "wait until your child is old enough to understand and make their own choice"

And how does a child understand when he's received no education? Would you approach academics the same way? Would you insist on being your child's only teacher?
Deprivation IS manipulation - are you a fan of Boka Haram?

Cenababy: Lol

Zanjan: Tularcitas, it's up to you to find a community that has a world view..there ARE some.

If you want to instill on your child the "Oneness of Mankind", you can't do it just by telling that to the child - he has to be shown how that is and how to express it. He wont believe you if you're the only one conveying this to him and you're doing nothing about it.

An example: My parents despised racism and brought up all their kids to accept and respect those of different backgrounds. However, there was no religion in our family. Two of their children became racists when they grew up; two didn't. Do you like to gamble?

All religions give their children a choice when they come of age - become a member of their religion or not. Before puberty, the child is just practicing while learning the basics. Religion is not a manual - one can't learn from a book; it's a way of life. Like riding a bike, practice is the only way to succeed.

Today, we know that the earth is a global village - it''s not a global community and never will be. The aim is to build bridges between communities, using the struts of common values. You may stay on your side of the bridge if you wish but all bridges offer freedom.

Zanjan: By the way, if you're wondering why two kids turned out so differently, I can answer that.

The two who never became racist spent their early years in Mennonite foster homes. No religion was foisted on them - just example, prayer and kind words. Neither child remembers much of what the Foster parents said, only what they did.

As a side note, here in the West, there are no children in foster homes who came from a religious family. Just doesn't happen.

Tatrasu 2: it is important to reconize that no spirit can be owned, not (your) wife, husband, child
and we really cannot show any what to do,,our best is being a fine example
if following incorrect or deceptive info for the source of our following,,then all that is shared is the same control deception as we know, many of the people giving there life to a following.rarely read or understand the origin and true meaning of info stated in the bible,
just tell a.reilgous person that Jesus was only half human and people have a fit
if you must be a believer of an image its a good option to see all of the facts,
was Mary chosen by an angel to have a none sex child?was Jesus father in heaven?
did Jesus say dont glorify me but my father in heaven?