Religion (Page 7)

Zanjan: Your timing is good, Cena. Today, the local Pastor's sermon was about disappointments and expectations. He spent at least an hour explaining how Christians have hope. This is what they have that the broken world doesn't.

Then he talked about what kind of hope Christians have - that is, no matter what bad happens to them, they have a better future. They expect that, one day, they will rise and be with their Lord. They're looking forward to going to heaven, a better place. Thus, for Christians, their future is always bright.

(I certainly agree it's important to look to the end of things. Yet it's equally important to look to the beginning of things too).

Meanwhile, I was wondering why Christians would think that what they have now isn't good enough? I mean, why arent they with their Lord *now* and, why isn't this way of life already the best? If it's the best, how could it get any better? Why look forward to anything else? What does it mean "to rise"? Christ rose, why aren't they following?

Well, a few are rising. You see, the change has been happening for awhile.

God has been raising up a people who LISTEN to Him and do as He bids - people who honour all those spiritual principles. Their very existence and undeniable beauty is the reason the slackers HAVE to start pulling up their socks. There's no other way they can survive in such a contrast except to get on board with it. They must follow.

Cenababy: Zan...yes, ch4istians need to be and do better for sure and multitudes do. I'm still learning. The interesting part the more you belong to God, the more you mature in Christ the more your mind lets go of the bad, the secular, the less you tolerate and even allow yourself to hear. This is a good thing lol.

It isn't that we deny here or don't care, I think their stance is , they know how much better a life with God, gone from here is so much better. Personally I'm in no hurry to die, I choose to live right now and be the best I can be. Everyone's diff,

sisiblackdog: woman you are the deffinition of boring.

Nicotina: Gotta love how some people imply that those who do not follow the same religion as them are somehow less moral and less worthy.

Zanjan: Depends on what they're supposed to be worthy of. Everyone has a place.

Not everyone is worthy to be a combat soldier, leader of a country or even a summer camp for kids. Likewise, not everyone is worthy to be a martyr, a missionary/pioneer, a trailblazer, treasurer, teacher etc. Not everyone in church can sing.....seriously; but, there's still a lot of worthy singers in church.

That's what I think all Christians will be doing in the next world - singing in the gallery; it's what they do best. The rest of us will likely be doing something more challenging.

Today, a Christian stabbed a 15 year old Baptist to death in the church washroom. I'm not a Christian so I guess I'm not worthy of being either the victim or the killer. Go figure.

Nicotina: tis not I who claims to be superior.

Zanjan: So, you're not implying you're superior to the killer?

Nicotina: I am not superior to any human being.

Zanjan: In that case, you must be inferior.

Nicotina: ...and that proves your arrogance, zan. I truly feel sorry for you because you have yet to realize that all people are important.
Neither you nor I get to determine the worth of another human being.
If only you had read and followed the holy books that you profess to hold to be true.

Zanjan: Ahh.......MY arrogance...seems to me, you're implying YOU are not arrogant; it follows you're superior to me. I see. That's ok, I'm fine with being in a low place in your eyes.

I've never suggested, not even implied anyone wasn't important so, not sure where you're getting that from. I have often said, "everyone has a place". What did you think that meant?

I can't speak for you but *I* get to determine the worth of another human being quite often - that's how I avoid toxic people, how I've determined who should be hired, and how I chose my husband.

"I truly feel sorry for you"

You know, if I were somebody else, that just might move me to tears. I tried being somebody else once - it didn't work.

"If only you had read and followed the holy books that you profess to hold to be true."

That's very strange coming from you - someone who says religion didn't work for her and doesn't believe in holiness but chooses happiness instead. How very odd. There's a place for odd people.

tularcitas: I think it is often human nature to dialectically define ourselves as better or right by pointing to someone else as worse or wrong. Are you familiar with that song "Us and Them"? Separation rather than unity.

Zanjan: Yep, Pink Floyd. Love their music but, you know, they did drugs, eh. Good for chillin and space movies.

I'm not fond of the lower nature - exceedingly competitive and territorial. .

I prefer the song "Circle of Life". (Elton John). Bang on.

Cenababy: Heh oh man

tularcitas: Zan....You obviously are not familiar with the lyrics of the song. I happen to feel the lyrics speak to the human condition that engenders wars and violence. I'm not a drug person, never have been, so I wouldn't know about "chillin and space movies". What exactly is it you are trying to say as per "lower nature"? If you are attempting to say you are on some kind of "higher level" then perhaps you should thank those of us on "lower levels" since we dialectically define you. You would not be "higher" unless you had us who are "lower" to contrast with and put you on the elevated position on which you feel you reside.

tularcitas: I happen to love the song "Imagine". I imagine you will have some (critique) of that. Right?

Zanjan: Tularcitas: "the human condition that engenders wars and violence."

That condition is the lower nature - it's based on animal instinct, programmed in our genetics since primordial times. Primitive humans relied on instinct and a rudimentary bi-pedal social order; they couldn't depart from that so were wild creatures. As the brain evolved, there was no need to rely on brute abilities. Yet humans carried them along as large 'left-overs' from an earlier stage of evolution. Intelligence and instinct fought with each other inside.

While God was doing His creation thing, He could see there was a problem to overcome - too much cleverness combined with strong animal instinct is a very dangerous combination. The human would become far too beastly, a monster - the species wouldn't be able to survive because it couldn't 'bend'. There had to be a fix to that structural weakness.

Thus, God gave the human a second nature - a soul. The soul is what makes the human a man, no longer indistinguishable from an animal. This is the higher nature. Adam wasn't the first human; He was the first Man. When the soul is developed, the human becomes mature - he changes into a powerful, noble, yet safe creature...... one who can adapt and thrive.

Religion teaches us how to take command of our own higher nature by subjugating our lower one. We still need instincts but they need to be directed, rather than loosed. Mastery doesn't come easy but this is what God intended us to attain.

Zanjan: "You would not be "higher" unless you had us who are "lower" to contrast with"

Not exactly. That's the ground view. You see, we all began in the same place; we were all once babies and children so we ALL know the lower nature like the back of our hands.

We can't all say the same for knowing the higher nature because it takes a lot of clinging to the edge before one gets a toehold on it. These adventurers don't need approval from others. They go there just because they can....they want to see the top. They stand on a mountain, unable to see anyone below. They only see other mountains, capiche?

Zanjan: Who doesn't love the song "Imagine"?

I'm not into dwelling on things that don't exist - to see a time where people are one, tells me it had to begin somewhere, a very small beginning, at a much much earlier time. I wont waste my time NOT being with those people in that time.

Dreamers see the vision, they just don't act on it.

Cenababy: I agree zan.

Nicotina: I am no better and no worse than anyone else.

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us, only sky
Imagine all the people living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion, too
Imagine all the people living life in peace
You...

Great song & lyrics.

Zanjan: "I am no better and no worse than anyone else."

Personally, I'd never want to imagine that. Once, I asked myself "Who would I be to judge myself?" My self replied "Nobody".

Nicotina: Ah zan, you are nothing if not entertaining.

Zanjan: Good choice of words, I revel in my nothingness.

If the stars fell: Religious self aggrandizement, and people try to call me arrogant. Funny though how science has made more progress in the last hundred years than religion has in the last 10 thousand.