Religion (Page 3)
To claim that a person is incapable of being a decent person without spirituality is ludicrous.
Zanjan: It would be if humans were intended to remain animals.
As you know, we have a faculty animals don't; we're designed to the use higher mental functions and explore use of the intellect. Intellect can't be developed when the state of the heart is underdeveloped. At best, one would have memory retention of data, like a robot, not understanding.
What do you think are the marks of a decent person? Show me how any of those marks are NOT related to a spiritual quality.
Zanjan: Well, in the absence of a "decent" list of traits, suffice to say that all parents want the moon for their kids. Realistically, most aim to give them what they didn't have, hoping their kids surpass their parents in excellency. Parents want to be proud of their kids; cuteness doesn't cut it past age 4.
Think about that - if the parents, themselves, couldn't be achievers, how can they expect their kids to do better? If the parents were achievers, they tend to have strong expectations for their children, accompanied with disapproval and punishment for failure to meet those expectations. Talk about unreasonable pressure! No wonder they turn to drugs.
Zanjan: What people call "decent" is nothing more than basic, ground level social skills. Nothing intellectual about them - they were picked up by observation and imitation, not invention. A decent person wants to live a life that’s smooth and carefree as possible; for that, you don’t make waves. Approval and acceptance by others is highly important to such a person.
I wanted better than "decent" for my kids. Undoubtedly, they'd inherit the same genes, which would give them greater capacity than the average simpleton. This is not to be wasted. The greater the gifts, the greater the responsibilities. Ignorance is not an option.
I wanted saintliness for my kids. What does that look like? The foundation is genuine love. If I want that, I must have it myself to show my kids its very possible to not only achieve it but maintain it, even in a wretchedly perverse society. I wanted my kids to be able to love others properly and generously, and to be just. There's only one way - through a carefully nurtured, consistent relationship with God.
Like a sapling, the child grows in the way you train him. It's all a matter of going through the phases; no one jumps from bestiality to nobility (or vice versa) in a single leap. The soul needs constant feeding to prevent withering.
If my child becomes saintly as a young adult, he's free to do even better if he wishes. He is able, if he chooses, to cut the tethers of this earthly world, of selfish impulses, and become holy and pleasing to God.
I might not witness his true worth as a servant of God but I can die happy knowing I got him to the place where he has spiritual muscles strong enough to fly.
Zanjan: Nicotina: "I was taught to respect people no matter what their religious beliefs".
Did your momma die young?
Zanjan: Tularcitas, a little background about me:
Neither my husband or I were religious when we married. My parents had no religion and my husband's father didn't have religion either. However, his mother was Catholic so raised her children as a Catholic. Then something bad happened so they all left the church by the time my husband was in his late teens.
Back then, there were only 2 religions to choose from; we knew them both well and we didn't want either of them.We had no issue with the religions, themselves, just the people in them.
Well, we married and kids came along; that changes a person - we don't act like single people anymore, free to do as we please. We don't own our children - they're not cattle - they're a trust placed in our hands. For their sake, we have to finish our own growing up.
As a mother, I had to look at their needs carefully, despite my own views. I always believed in God ( that's a position, not a perspective) and thought there had to be a better way to introduce my children to a safe, God-believing community, something I, myself, could get behind.
After many prayers and a long and painful search, I'd given up. Then, one night, I had a dream; not just an ordinary dream - a visitation.
Long story short, I found the place I could call my religious home, a place that taught the truth and harmony of all religions and peoples, even to the little children. I didn't care what my husband thought, this was how my children would be raised - in a real spiritual home. Thankfully, he just stood back and left the children's education and training up to me.
Often, the kids would come to me with questions about their dad's beliefs. I'd show them HOW to respect those whose beliefs are different. When they asked me who was right, I'd tell them it's not about identities, it's about WHAT is right; and, they'd have to make up their own minds about that.
Our kids turned into adults any parent could be proud of - not because their dad was an atheist, but because they actively grew up in a God-believing religious community.
Zanjan: Briefly, a parent's job is to show their children how to do something the right way. This is the same objective of any religion, which is conveyed through mentoring. However, a teacher must teach himself first.
The problem in both fields is the over-abundance of teachers who aren't amongst the learned.
Tatrasu 2: Zanjan reply to:What people call "decent
your mission is pure,,and agreed understanding is achiveved by good role models,if we focus on the unconditional love first the remaining minds set is unused,,and thus our intent ,belief makes all that we not want to be,,be the conscious spirit residing in the heart,,this is the mystery teaching that was shifted into ego and harmonic disodence,,when heart and mind become one we are in sympathetic coheranat resonance (heart and mind unity)the teacher need only vibrate on a frequency of harmonic love for the studet to feel leadership
Tatrasu 2: it is unhappy that many teachers and systems of diversion do not allow for programing other than from the paid system of profit,,it has been said the only good science is honest science
Tatrasu 2: when two opposing views or frequencies attempt to reside together there is competition of control and the winner is never either one,,when unit resides all that dna Mitosis is in growth as fear has not enacted Apoptosis
Zanjan: Well that's the thing, people would strive for unity if they actually knew how. It's a lot easier said than done because both parties must want the same thing. There is a way though and that starts with observing our environment, free of bias.
We take some lessons from nature: God created all that diversity for a number of reasons; through observation, we see how its harmony is critical to sustain life - not just the life of a species, but of all species. The ancients recognized the balance of nature at the local level and some people learned to treat that with respect. Today, science knows that's a planetary balance and its not being treated with respect.
Apply this to the world of man. When different peoples are at peace with each other, thoughtfully and fairly trading goods, arts, foods and ideas etc., not only do we all survive, we ALL prosper. That's a win-win situation. This doesn't happen when people try to win at the expense of another. In fact, what happens is destruction of society, numerous species, and, ultimately, the whole environment. Earth is wounded.
How many can assaults can Earth take before it dies? The ancients didn't know; they only saw small, local wounds, made with arrows and natural fires. Now we have big toys, big smoke and big wars. Never has there been a time of such big greed and such international connection. Thousands of species became extinct at the hands of man - when they started dying, so did the environment and so did we.
We can stop that, if we want to. How bad does it have to get to make us want to? God has given us the tools to make peace, harmony and unity happen so, let's create some teachers in peace, harmony and unity. I think we'd be utterly amazed at what a pure heart can do.
Zanjan: I didn't give birth to my children to watch them die before their time, and take others down with them. As I gave myself to God, so I gave my children to Him as well - submission to God is the only sustainable way to live and contribute to the betterment of humanity.
When our kids asked me why WE had to be different, I told them because this is the most critical time on earth that anyone has ever lived. For the first time in history, the survival of the planet totally depends on what we do with our time spent here..............a short time at that.
I told them that others turn into protesters but I aim to turn them into a champion builder of a new civilization; at the very least, one who can teach others how to love and get along, even with their enemies.
Tatrasu 2: have you heard of the ubuntu movement ? as for giving ourself to God,,many talk but few even get up to offer a seat to those in need,,i dont think many have the strength to committ that deep,,for are we not to come to him as babes((aproach wisdom with innocence and purity)
Zanjan: As far as I know, Ubuntu is a computer operating system - maybe you can explain how that factors here, other than the reduced odds of being hacked or attacked by malware and such.
Zanjan: My concern is not for those who wont give themselves to God - such people are drowning and will die off like the dinosaurs; nothing we can do about that. My concern is for those who say they've given themselves to God - that is, religious people.
There are multitudes of religious folks who need a sharp attitude adjustment. For instance, I wont tolerate any of them saying "my religion is better than yours/the only true religion" or "you're going to hell because you didn't accept my religion". We are going to have a non-confrontational whisker talk and I'll use their own religious text to show them.
I aim to educate, to inform them that such territorial impulses, running amok in their religion, have caused the bloody deaths of millions. Mankind doesn't need that so, it stops right here with me.
The remainder of the religious are those who want to learn - that, I can work with. Our starting point is on even ground - focusing on the samenesses. Therein lies unity and friendship.
No one can be faulted for not knowing, only for disregarding the needs of the day. There is no need for preaching (threats and promises) anymore; time has run out. This is the day for action, for growing up and setting the right example.
Reminds me of the First Nations people - they simply say to their young, "Watch and do".
Zanjan: A baby is pure and innocent but also ignorant and helpless, blindly communicating its needs through demanding protest. God didn't intend for us to remain in that undeveloped state.
So, when we come to Him as babes, pure in heart, we approach Him though awareness and knowledge, yet with an undefiled heart - not one filled with worldly/material desires. We bow, "Thy Will, not my will".
Innocence is the absence of wrong-doing. Our spiritual journey towards God is about acquiring the divine virtues that prevent us from wrong-doing. God wouldn't tell us to do something we weren't able to do. The king of all virtues is to be a truth-teller; such a person would rather die than tell a lie. That's how you return to innocence.
Nicotina: Zanjan posted "Did your momma die young?", where "momma" was implied to be my mother. How pathetic that zanjan has once again resorted to schoolyard bullying tactics.
Tatrasu 2: sorry zanjan but God and our creator are two different entities please look closer
not to disturb.all those lost in the feeling,,the feeling is correct,the words have been altered to perpetuate ongoing control,,valintino,marcion,constantine,,and more alterations of the original and not properly translated when done
look thru summerian,acadian,babalon records for truth,,before the worlds greedy countries steal all the tablets under the disguise of war
Ubuntu is a.political movement as well originating by Michael Tellinger in South Africa
based on contributionism,also a Linux version asl you mentioned correctly