Religion (Page 16)

Angry Beaver: What agendas? Your "truth" is not everyone elses truth. My children have been moulded by me to be decent human beings.... do you even have children?
And no, I have not brainwashed my children, I let them form their own conclusions as adults after giving them the options... you lot brainwash by telling children there is only ONE path! The one full of paedophile priests with their abuse and cover ups....and just put money in the collection bowl every sunday and you'll be saved!! halle friggen lujah, praise the lord and pass the collection plate... Evil and nasty....

Blackshoes: The truth Is before everyone . There's only one truth. If you choose to reject or not accept it .That's your problem
Right ;You molded your Children to reject the' facts and evidence in leu of assumptions and opinions that the worlds preaches .. You will never see beyond your programing
'Just as the World does' you blame it all of others, rather than take the responsibility to teach and Guild them .
You let them make they're own conclusion', what crock of Poop . You've been teaching n' training them all they're years ! WIth how you feel and react . Just as you did now ' with anger, instead of reason and logic . So typical' it's sad .

Angry Beaver: Yeah, OK oh enlightened one, you are right, everyone else is wrong

How did you teach your children? Do you actually have children?

Blackshoes: ^^ See what I mean ^^

Cenababy: :headshake: :shakehead:

Cenababy: Oops

Angry Beaver: So you don't actually have children then... ok

You do realise this is a parenting thread?
I was answering the OP of:

"tularcitas: Those of you who might have different religious affiliations, how did you deal with this with your children as far as introducing them to religion..if you did?"

I did so to say how I dealt with instruction, not to suffer yet another lecture of religious dogma. I'm sure that wasn't the thread starter's intention.

Zanjan: Angry wrote: “Nobody should brainwash a child with their own beliefs, just tell them the options.”

How many options do you suggest telling them about? ONE religion… VS ….. atheism?

By your own admission, you’d expect young children – preschoolers and elementary grade students - to have the wherewithal to choose between them with NO information on either. After all, you’ve pre-selected the options for them. That’s influence enough. Experience is highly over-rated. Therefore, you’ll answer no questions, since that would be brainwashing, right?

Sure, just throw them in the water and see if they'll float. That ought to be fun at a party. Meanwhile, we’re supposed to believe they never heard your opinions.

“I let them form their own conclusions as adults”

That’s mighty big of you, seeing as they have that right. Did you tell their mother to zipper her lip too? Seems you’re implying you prevented them from formulating any conclusions before they became adults. Ahh, the things kids DON’T tell their parents! Did you prevent them from praying too?

I thank God that He can over-ride parental ineptitude and deprivation, even brainwashing. Unfortunately, He can't bring back those lost years.

Blackshoes: Nice try Angry ! Yet everything I stated' other than mentioning your attitude Was from a parents perspective ..

Angry Beaver:
Why would I espouse something to a child which I clearly don't believe?? That would be total hypocrisy on my part. Kids aren't stupid, they'd see right through it.
They learnt of religion from their mother and their scripture teachers, all they got from me was "I don't believe, ask someone who does, the only teaching i ever agreed with was the golden rule".
This makes me a bad parent because I wouldn't lie to them?
Good onyas

My attitude comes from your inference that I have failed my successful, happy, well adjusted kids who grew up with my values and their mother's because I won't sprout your rhetoric at them hypocritically. They knew where to find information if they so chose.. no preschooler/young child needs to know about religion, just to be told good from bad and to just enjoy being young.


Funny how they stayed with the parent who "failed" them by not giving religious instruction but just gave them heaps of love, affection and encouragement to be the best humans they could be by being kind and pleasant.


Unfollowed, just no dealing with zealots

Zanjan: Kind and pleasant......like you? So, your kids come from a broken home? You may not be posting further (since you don't want anyone's opinion) so, this is for the benefit of those who've taken your perspective:

Angry: "Why would I espouse something to a child which I clearly don't believe??"

You don't have to. Do you have a professional teaching certificate? Otherwise, what are your qualifications to teach them life skills? How independent are your adult children? If they come from a broken home, they have resentments.

Let's not pretend our kids will never face a crisis.....can you predict how will they move through those?

Like politics, nobody agrees but kids must still learn the basic structures IN SCHOOL. They'll still have to study sex education and learn how to debate, even if the parent doesn't agree with those exercises.

As a parent, you have a duty to see that they get a well-rounded academic education, that they're taught literature and world history - religion is a major part of human history. If your child attends public school, they wont get that huge chunk of history so you have to look to religious classes. You can scout out those that support most other religions.

As Angry's story unfolds, it does look like his children had no say in what they believed. As a father, he just took a back seat.........until they got older. What he conveyed to his kids is that he had no interest in what they were learning. Apply that lack of interest to their other academic subjects.

Kids don't grow up with your values - they're observers. They don't choose - they mimic. Religious values and those of atheists are like fire and water - they don't mix. The mother is the first educator - she has far more influence in their early training than others. If any credit is due for their conduct, it goes to her; their religious teachers only facilitate information.

It takes a whole community to bring up a child. Make of this what you will - those are the facts.

Geoff: I'll carry on teaching my kids the art of critical thinking and objectively valid morality.

That way they can make their own minds up. If they want to follow a god, that's their business. It's very British to keep your religious faith and how you vote to yourself.

Blackshoes: LOL Who the Hell' wants to be that British LOL

Geoff: Ah, racist as well as a fool, a tool, and a hateful bigot. Nice to know.

Stop using our language.

Zanjan: "objectively valid morality."

Do let us know who's going to validate that.

Geoff: Logic. The path of least harm is a good starting point.

Sorry you are so wedded to your superstitions that you honestly think there's no right or wrong without it.

Blackshoes: I often wonder' if people even understand the definitions of the rhetoic they throw about


superstition noun
su·​per·​sti·​tion | \ ˌsü-pər-ˈsti-shən


\
Definition of superstition
1
a
: a belief or practice resulting from ignorance, fear of the unknown, trust in magic or chance, or a false conception of causation
b
: an irrational abject attitude of mind toward the supernatural, nature, or God resulting from superstition
2
: a notion maintained despite evidence to the contrary

Zanjan: Geoff wrote: "Logic. The path of least harm is a good starting point."

Would that be harm to one's self OR harm to others? Logically, you can't have it both ways.

I can see you struggling with how to teach them about weighing the risks and sacrifice, unless you've omitted that from your equation. .

Geoff: Harm to all. It's always a judgement call.

But evolution works on many levels and human societies wouldn't exist if we weren't social creatures. And a society surviving means a balance between what is right for you and what is right for others.

Anthropologists have tested morality using the Trolley Problem (and contextual variants thereof) around the world, with every culture, paying careful attention to those least contacted. Humanity has evolved to have a very definite idea of right and wrong when it comes to harm.

Zanjan: "Harm to all."

That's a very narrow field....you could count the type of incidents on one hand. Go ahead and name some.

If you push that nuclear button, it's safe to say that would cause harm, to all. Maybe you'd be hunkered down in a deep earth bunker but you have to come out sooner or later...and breathe in the fallout.
I know a lot of people who've poisoned the well(s), imagining that, as long as they don't drink the water, they're safe.

"Humanity has evolved to have a very definite idea of right and wrong when it comes to harm. "

Humanity isn't agreeable. Evolution is unity of thought - we're not there. War is wrong yet people still sign up to serve it.

You widen the field when you permit "harm to some".......say, gambling, abortion, divorce, drinking, lying and so forth. Most think all of this is ok because these are their human rights under the civil law in so called "developed" countries. Have been for a long time.

Every few years you see a brand new human right pop up; apply enough pressure and, eventually, the government will sanction it. What was shocking three generations back, isn't today because people have become de-sensitized.

There are a lot more situations parents have to face, such as their children's accusation of "favoritism". You might tell them, "Look, Johnny is a high needs individual, who requires a lot of our time to deal with his disabilities. It's not a matter of us liking him more than you".

Surely you can't think that solves the problem and wont cause any acting out later in their teens and as young adults. Children have an instinctive perception of what's fair, and they remember their whole lives that they didnt get their share.

What makes you think you've got the power to wipe the slate clean?

Geoff: I'd ask what makes you think you don't have the right to wipe a slate clean. But you're one of those godbothering types.

I know you Zanjan. And frankly time is slowly proving me right. Because godbothering morons like you are slowly being more and more ignored.

Geoff: I'm unfollowing this thread. You're more stupid than your eloquence indicates.

I'm going to keep doing what I see as right. That you don't understand the nuance therein demonstrates how fucking stupid you are.

Zanjan: I said POWER, not a 'right. You think you know me but you have no clue as to what I'll do in a crisis or extreme situation. People have always ignored me - you think a few more would make some sort of difference?

By your standard, it seems you think the use of mean-spirited expletive deletives cause no harm to anyone on earth.

Zanjan: Oh dear, his post jumped mine. Pity.

Geoff: So you've not actually read any books on logic? Or referring to logic? Back as far as ancient Greece?

There is no power that humanity doesn't grant.


There's always fools like you and BS. You stick to your stone age fundamentals. Eventually the rest of humanity will have to drop nukes on you, because that's the only left that's right.