Evolution Fact or Fiction--Make your best 'sound' case:

zeffur: The title of this forum is self-explanatory. You either can or you cannot make a sound case for your beliefs--so get to it!

I'll start -- I think evolution is 100% fiction & a complete fraud because:

1. There exists no proof nor any compelling/convincing verified facts or unbiased evidence with a cogent explanation that nature has any intelligence to produce life/DNA from non life. DNA is a code & all code necessarily are created by an intelligent agent/s. Nature has no such intelligence, so it is logical that an intelligent agent/s created life.

2. There exists no proof or unbiased verifiable scientific evidence with a cogent explanation that any original microbe existed/exists that all life 'evolved' from.

3. There exists no proof or unbiased verifiable scientific evidence with a cogent explanation that evolution has ever occurred. Evolutioners repeatedly & erroneously mistake the many genetic variations that are possible wtihin the genomes of each species as 'evidence' of evolution, when in fact they are not evidence of evolution--they are just the variations that are already present within the genomes of each species that can be expressed in the offspring of each kind of creature (e.g. dogs can be bred to have many different variations--but they are always the same species & they are not evolving into any new kind of creature--that is an erroneous myth that evolutioners repeatedly try to mislead people to believe is occurring).

4. There exists no proof or unbiased verifiable scientific evidence with a cogent explanation that shows any bona fide intermediate links or transitional fossils have ever been found in the fossil record that prove evolution has ever occurred. All examples offered by charlatans like R. Dawkins et al are specious & irrational biased & bogus misrepresentations of the evidence. Extinct chimps to modern mankind arrangements are nothing but a conflation of different skeletal remains with a false evo story/narrative added to try to deceive ignorant/uneducated people into believing in an unproven & irrational belief system called evolution. There is NO proof or sound scientific case that humans & chimps evolved from a 'common ancestor'--it's nothing but a biased & bogus evo belief....

5. Evolution has a long history of deception & fraud. It has & continues to attempt to deceive people with biased & bogus info & tactics/techniques. One example is the misuse of comparative anatomy to falsely draw unproven relationships between extinct & living creatures (e.g.: dogs are always dogs, no matter how much their physical form or appearance can be changed during breeding--THEY ARE STILL THE SAME SPECIES.... And that is why comparative anatomy is NOT a reliable tool for evolutioners to endlessly use to try to deceive people with their misinterpretations & lies... Evolutioners have also mislabeled wolves as a different species from dogs when in reality it has been proven that wolves & dogs can successfully breed).

If you can prove otherwise or provide compelling/convincing verifiable evidence with a cogent unbiased explanation that does not include any unproven assumptions, irrational beliefs/opinions, unproven extrapolations, etc then feel free to post such evidence in this forum for consideration & discussion.

Otherwise, it is my position that 'evolution' only exists because atheists & other nitwits have infiltrated the sciences to promote their imaginary biased & bogus myth/fairy tale. They have ZERO proof & no compelling/convincing evidence with a cogent explanation to substantiate their imaginary & absurd beliefs are vald/true in any way.

Prove me wrong--if you can...

D C A: You must be bored and looking to argue. Lol

GeraldtheGnome: Well you are sure that a god created life in a direct manner. Correct ? Everything within each of us is what a god specifically wanted each of us to have. Correct ?

zeffur: Stay on topic. This forum IS ONLY about YOU attempting to make a genuine & honest case for YOUR belief in evolution--if you can...

If you persist in trying to veer off about any other topic, I will delete your off topic posts--as is appropriate for all that veer off topic.

GeraldtheGnome: It is on topic, it’s also about you showing that you are right, not just about me showing you that I’m right. But you’ve beaten me, you’ve won. I can’t make a genuine and honest case about the certainty, not just my belief, of evoltion as you so eloquently put it.

zeffur: re: "GtG: I can’t make a genuine and honest case about the certainty, not just my belief, of evoltion as you so eloquently put it."

Then you have no position to present in here. This isn't a forum about God/religion or fake science (which evolution is). This is ONLY about whether or not evo chumps can make a sound cases for their 'belief' in evolution that they claim is a scientific fact--which of course it is not. I've created this forum for anyone who wants to try to make a sound case for such a false belief. Maybe some brilliant person will teach us all something that we don't know...

zeffur: re: "GtG: I was going to send a similar Video to Zeffur's forum, but his 'evolution' forum was where he asked for evidence, but didn't want it and that no science was to be put on there as evidence, also that evolution certainly never happened."

That ^^ is a lie. If you have REAL scientific evidence that proves evolution from one kind of creature to another kind of creature has actually occurred--then I want to see it. I don't want to see endless rubbish that has no basis in fact or reality & that does NOT provide any compelling/convincing evidence & lacks any cogent scientific explanation that is just taken out of context by lying evolutioners...

re: "To me and to everyone else it means why bother, he's already ruled out anything you want to put on there before you put it on there."

Exactly--I want real evidence that ACTUALLY substantiates that your beliefs are ACTUALLY true--which you do NOT have & which you cannot provide--which is the real reason that you cannot provide any bona fide compelling/convincing evidence---because NONE exists because evolution is a 100% proven indefensible LIE & FRAUD--and everyone honest knows it...

This forum is NOT about fake science. You can present real science here--however evolution is not real science. It is laden with the biased & bogus beliefs of evolutioners who have infiltrated & corrupted real science. Real science is observable, testable, repeatable--evolution has no such qualities--which is the reason that it is not real science--it is at best pseudoscience & at worst just deceptive assertions that have no proof or credible evidence to substantiate it's preposterous imaginary beliefs...

ghostgeek: How could we guess that Zeffur, on the first page of his thread, would delete somebody's post.

zeffur: I warned him & he posted a wall of off-topic rubbish as he typically does. I won't be tolerating such nonsense. If you can actually make a honest & valid case for your beliefs, then do so, if not then don't.

zeffur: The facts remain undisproven:

1. Nature has no intelligence or capability to originate or evolve life & all the life forms that have existed on earth.

2. Evoidiots have no proof & no sound case to substantiate that abiogenesis or evolution are valid/true or have ever occurred.

3. Kinds can only reproduce with their own kinds & there is ZERO evidence or sound case to the contrary that they have ever produced any new kind. What would any purported new kind breed with?? Evoidiot beliefs are completely irrational.

4. There is zero proof or any sound case that any series of mutations have ever occurred that has led to any new kind.

5. Evolution is a proven 100% indefensible lie & fraud that has NO sound basis whatsoever.

6. Evoidiots have failed to meet their burden of proof for their absurd & indefensible claims.

7. There is NO sound reason to accept that abiogenesis or evolution are valid/true or have ever occurred. This is the reason that sane, honest, rational, well-informed, & intelligent people reject the myth of abiogenesis & the myth of evolution. Such notions are relegated to atheidiots, flat earthers, & other nitwits.

8. The Bible provides the ONLY reasonable explanation for how life came to exist on earth. Every other claims is complete nonsense...

9. No evoidiot has any truth to offer that substantiates abiogenesis or evolution are valid/true or have ever occurred. Bad inferences & shite opinions are not proven facts, so there is no reason at all to accept what any atheidiot falsely asserts is valid/true or indefensibly claims has ever occurred.

ghostgeek: You may or may not be right about evolution, time will tell there, but your claim that the Bible provides the ONLY reasonable explanation for how life came to exist on earth can be challenged. So do you fancy proving what you said about the Bible or are you just venting?

zeffur: We have already provided ample evidence & sound reasoning as to why The Bible is the only reasonable explanation for life on earth.

Where is the real evidence & sound reason-based, credible challenge to an intelligent creator creating life on earth??

ghostgeek: Why do you assume an intelligent creator, if it exists, must be this God of the Bible that you so ardently promote? There are many other religious traditions that offer a different take on Creation, then there is the alien connection and we must not forget panspermia.

ghostgeek: A new paper published this week in Frontiers in Microbiology explores the possibility that microbes and extremophiles may migrate between planets and distribute life around the Universe—and that includes on spacecraft sent from Earth to Mars. ...

Tanpopo—dandelion in English—is a scientific experiment to see if bacteria can survive in the extremes of outer space.

The researchers from Tokyo University—in conjunction with Japanese national space agency JAXA—wanted to see if the bacteria deinococcus could survive in space, so had it placed in exposure panels on the outside of the International Space Station (ISS). It’s known as being resistant to radiation. Dried samples of different thicknesses were exposed to space environment for one, two, or three years and then tested to see if any survived.

They did, largely by a layer of dead bacteria protecting a colony beneath it. The researchers estimate that a colony of 1 mm of diameter could potentially survive up to 8 years in outer space conditions.

[ https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamiecartereurope/2020/08/26/what-is-panspermia-new-evidence-for-the-wild-theory-that-says-we-could-all-be-space-aliens/ ]

zeffur: re: "gg: Why do you assume an intelligent creator, if it exists, must be this God of the Bible..."

I don't assume it. It has been document by real people who had real experiences with God & mankind has known about it for millennia. Modern nitwits don't know anything--they assume all manner of indefensible rubbish & pretend that their indefensible conclusions (i.e. beliefs, assumptions, opinions, & claims) are true, but they have not & cannot prove or even provide a sound case for their indefensible conclusions--which is the very reason that sane, honest, rational, well-informed, & intelligent people do NOT accept such drivel.

re: "There are many other religious traditions that offer a different take on Creation, then there is the alien connection and we must not forget panspermia."

1. There is only one real creator of the universe & all life in it. Regardless of whatever religious faiths believe in a higher power that created everything--that being IS the only being. Most religions do not have such a well documented universe & life explanation as The Bible provides. Hindus believe in (Brahma, the creator; Vishnu, the preserver; and Shiva, the destroyer)--which are essentially just attributes of God. All Jews, Christians, & Muslims believe in the same God (even though muhammad was a murderous pedophile & his followers have perverted The Bible in their writings--which in my mind makes them not credible--which is no surprise, when you consider how they make all kinds of trouble in the world with their psychopathic jihad insanity. Those believers constitute ~70% of all the humans on earth. They aren't wrong--you clowns are wrong.

2. By some definitions, one could argue that God is alien to earth--but, given that God is everywhere & in everything, that's a stretch. Jesus said, "I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world." John 8:23 (KJV), so if He is not of this world, then where is He from? Heaven? Another planet? We only know so much, as we have no way to obtain any other clearer understanding.

3. Panspermia is an idea--not a fact of any kind. It also has no origin explanation. It also requires evolution--& we know for a fact that evolution is a 100% proven lie & fraud, as nature has no intelligence or capability to originate or evolve life. We also know that existing kinds do not 'evolve'. The variations that are possible within each kind are bound by genetic limits & built-in genetic correction methods or death of a rogue genome--due to any serious genetic disease of any kind--such as cancer.

zeffur: re: "gg: A new paper published this week in Frontiers in Microbiology explores the possibility that microbes and extremophiles may migrate between planets and distribute life around the Universe—and that includes on spacecraft sent from Earth to Mars. ..."

And the operative phrase there is 'may migrate'. That is not a fact & it also does not address the origin of life & we know (as stated above) that evolution is not real--it's only an indefensible lie/fraud that delusional atheidiots & other nitwits choose to believe in & promote in vain to deceive ignorant people to accept their erroneous & dishonest worldview.

As for some life forms being able to survive in outer space, that's great & a testament to God's creative power--it doesn't answer the origin question & it doesn't explain how such life could travel through interstellar space to reach other solar systems.
Sure, it is possible that some collisions could produce ejecta that might travel between some celestial bodies within a solar system, but there is no evidence that such life from Earth could survive on Mars, for example & of course there is zero evidence that evolution can occur. There is also no evidence that such ejected life forms could travel to other solar system or other galaxies.

So, yeah, you haven't really provided any actual credible explanations that are more reasonable than God as the creator of the universe & all life on earth (and possibly life on other worlds--we don't know all that God has done).

Got anything real & credible to offer??

zeffur: More ^^ disingenuous rubbish to delete from the forum.

ghostgeek: Progress is slow, granted, but that doesn't mean science won't solve the mystery of life. As they say at the shops, every little bit helps.

In a study published last month in the journal Nature, scientists in the U.S., U.K., and Israel successfully created a synthetic mouse embryo without using any eggs or sperm. Instead, they used an assortment of stem cells.

Compared to natural embryos maturing alongside them, these lab-grown counterparts developed similar features seen nearly nine days after fertilization, such as a beating heart, a very early-stage brain, and a gut tube — before they abruptly halted growth.

[ https://www.inverse.com/innovation/synthetic-embryos-lab?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB ]

zeffur: What your article describes is human intelligence being applied (not so well) to living cells. That's not a natural process. Nature has no intelligence to originate or evolve any life--nor the plethora of life forms that have existed on earth.