Giving drug addicts free college

King Karma: Is it really fair to give college to free drug addicts when not being a drug addict will not earn you anything? Being a drug addict means you will get free college from the "Department of rehabilitation". Being a drug addict means you need help, and I agree in giving them help. However I dont think we should reward them, and if we are going to give them a reward for being drug addicts I think we should also give benefits to those kids who did not do drugs since "Ill go to prison if I do".

harlett daeava: are they the same addicts who refused a free high school education because they were busy getting addicted .. ?????

shyartsy: Give em a gold star..

mistermills357: Who had that brainstorm? And how did it get past a committee?
(Yeah, I am chalking that idea up to a committee, no lone idiot has enough "brainpower" to think that up.)

King Karma: @Mistermills I think they figured that if they gave them free college they would not have to go back to drugs and could better their life. However strangely we dont apply this idea to convicts regardless of crime. I honestly surprised about that.

Drug addict-Free college and work training
Convict-Bared from most kind of jobs, homeless programs, or assistance

I agree in punishing convicts but if you bar them from everything its not like they are going to do anything but commit more crime. You can choose to stop doing drugs and get better, you can also choose not to start them to begin with. We tend to reward people for starting it though, when we tell kids "No drugs are bad youll have a bad life". Than punish the kids who chose not to do them by saying "You cant go to college, since you are a greedy entitled brat".

Zanjan: "However strangely we dont apply this idea to convicts regardless of crime."

Where do you live?? Of course we do. Check out how many mass murderers and swindlers have obtained one or two university degrees, especially in law, while in prison - all free. They have all the time in the world; and, if they manage to escape, they've got more tools to do what they do.

Lack of advanced education isn't the reason people take drugs - they do it because they're in emotional pain. Check out how many successful sports, film, and rock stars take drugs. Even some doctors and police do; many of them are alcoholics. A few of these have also landed in prison. Some have gone to de-tox but end up re-lapsing.

They simply can't handle the stress of responsibility. I knew a guy who had a PHD in geology and a fine job, wife, kids - one day just walked away from it all and became a homeless person.

Zanjan: A friend of mine in Austria taught engineering. Their government's policy is to force the hooligans and losers into a better education. A good job will keep them off the streets. Great idea but very shallow and out of the loop.

They don't want to be there and don't want to learn either. They're constantly disrupting the classes and playing hooky. She has to deal with their rotten behaviour and, if they do manage to graduate, it's at the bottom of the class.

Many times, she complained how their country is turning out poor level workers. Nobody says these people can keep a job once they've returned to the community. The problem with modern governments is they think they can solve every problem by throwing money at it.

My friend eventually had a mental breakdown and is no longer teaching.

King Karma: Yes ZanJan that is correct. A lot of people do take drugs for emotional pain. Also I am against giving convicts and drug addicts free college when a regulaur 18 year old who never did anything wrong can be kicked out of the house by mom and dad and still told "We dont care about you, have fun finding a shelter that will take you". A lot of shelters also will not accept you unless you have a mental disorder or you have a baby. I also dont see how its very productive to bar off convicts from all jobs if you want them to get out of jail and become productive members of society. Not that I think them being Convicts is great but if you turn a convict to a homeless person, that is use to commiting crime, they will just commit more crime once they are out and that really does not fix a thing.

Saying this 18 year old is not worth it for NOT getting in trouble is a little unfair isnt it? Honestly all 18 year olds should have a chance to go to college but we only give college to those who do everything we tell them NOT to do. I dont see how that is really a good thing. You can work at Mcdonalds till the day you die becuase you did not do drugs in HS, but if you did drugs you get free education automatically. How exactly does that make sense?

Zanjan: Well, I ran away from home when I was 15 - ugly parents. They wanted me at home but not for the right reasons. There weren't any homeless shelters around then so I had to be innovative. Got a job and an apartment.

My parents didn't have the money to send me to college or university and there were no government student loans in those days so you can see how a high school education, alone, was pretty much a dead end even then.

However, since I was a minor, the government later forced my parents to pay for a technical course for me. Having a licensed trade meant I didn't have to flip burgers for the rest of my life. Once I had some dough stashed away, I continued my education when I got married.

Yeah, I got into trouble, including drugs, but I got out of it. One can't party forever.

Zanjan: Not all people are smart enough to go to college or university. The prisons are filled with people who have ADHD - in the 80% range. They're not so easy to teach. Some of them, have various forms of alcohol effective disorder from their mother drinking while carrying them in pregnancy.

For this reason, some of them learn trades while in prison, like the laundry staff and cooks. They can't go any place so why not? Some can work outside the prisons in special programs. There are half-way houses that help inmates integrate back into the community: the John Howard society and Elizabeth Fry society have been around for decades - they monitor, screen and make referrals for ex-cons to get a job in the community.

Nevertheless, many of those end up right back in prison - it's actually easier to get drugs in prison. Inmates are very well connected and that's what gives them power in their little world.

King Karma: If you think some kids would be better off learning a trade it would make more sense to set up HS that way but HS is not set up that way. Its made to push everyone into college, even though some kids might not want to even go to college. Either way we are getting way off topic from the initial discussion of drug use and the privlage of free college.

Zanjan: Yes, High school IS set up that way - it's called Composite High. Been operating since the 1950's. Students can choose from several trades, apprenticeships and etc - the downside is, one had to have consistently lower marks to get in. My marks were too high - I was doing a 3 year metric for university so didn't qualify for special treatment.

My brother, on the other hand, was mentally handicapped and couldn't get past grade 5 - he qualified for 4 years of workforce training - free, then government financial support while working. He never had to worry about paying any bills. If he were young today, they'd put him in high school on a simplified curriculum and permit him to graduate with a general diploma. If he was interested and had the capacity, he'd also get 1 free year of college plus practicum as workplace entry training.

I never got a high school diploma. You see, when one has been on the workforce for a few years, they can enter university as long as they pass the entrance exam. To take any of the sciences, one needs grade 12 math so I took that and passed - math had always been my worst subject in grade school but as a young adult, I was able.

Sorry, but I have little sympathy these days for slackers, who claim they're disadvantaged with no future. Some third world countries, yes, because most of them are too busy dealing with wars, drought, floods and famine - important things.

Zanjan: Anyone who's interested in learning will find a way when they're ready. Education was never meant to be a reward system but something one works hard for - the very fact they finished is proof of their determination, be they rich or poor.

The same thing is true for drugs - you want them, you'll find a way whether anyone helps you or not.

King Karma: I dont know where you live but America is not set up this way. They also shut down most of the trade classes they use to teach in school. Also I dont see how you believe doing drugs means you earned a collage education. It means you screwed up and they decided to give you a reward for it. If at 18 without a checkered past are told you dont deserve a college education vs someone with a checkered past getting 4 years for free, how do you believe that screwing up mean you EARNED it? Composite High is in Canada. Not over here.

Zanjan: I live in North America, specifically, Canada.

I don't think I ever gave the impression that doing drugs earns you an education. If that were true, we'd all be doing it.....oh wait, most every one is but they don't call alcohol a drug...it's just not PC.

Any education I got after my trade certificate, I paid for myself by working and saving.

King Karma: Sorry, I meant United States of North America. We are right below you. We are close to each other but we have very different rules. Also I pretty sure Alchohol addiction would fall under need for "Rehabilitation".

Zanjan: Wow - an American who actually knows where Canada is!

Rehabilitation can't be forced nor guaranteed. Idk, there's some pretty rich Americans. There's a guy in Las Vegas who owns a Casino. He's got a grade 5 education and is filthy rich.

Then again, we're just talking materialism. What makes a person a successful human being? NOT materialism.

King Karma: In the US legally you have to get an education till Junior year where you can legally drop out of school. If he only went to grade 5 he probobly got the rest from home school. Unless of course he got the GED which you can get at anytime and legally wont have to go to school anymore. I never said any of this was forced. I was talking about that earning you a free education or not. Also I looked into what it takes to start a casino or bank and you need millions to start up which probobly means that kid comes from a rich family. Since its extremly rare for a child that age to suddenly get that kind of money without some kind of help. Unless of course they did something to get famous. Nothing you brought up really has anything at all to do with the main post either you are just spouting unrelated gibberish without any real piont to it.

Zanjan: Truancy laws are the same in Canada - it's the day you turn age 15. Some people have to repeat a few grades. This guy is my age; lots of kids dropped out of school when I was young because their parents needed them to work and take care of them. This was most often true of farm kids, who are actually learning a trade as well as a business. City kids, not so fortunate.

King Karma: A childs education should not be dependent on where he lives or where he comes from. If someone is from the city they should be given the option to learn something even if they dont have family to teach them anything. Saying "Well you should have family who can teach you something useful" is just horribly unbalanced since a lot of kids dont have family to teach them anything like that. So they have to go to school and learn things istead.

Zanjan: "you need millions to start up which probably means that kid comes from a rich family."

Not in those days. Casinos could be a mom and pop affair as a starter. He was connected to the Mafia family - one makes deals with the family and when those are paid off, you can call the shots.

My Dad only went to grade 5, no home schooling..there weren't any truancy laws then. He was a farm boy who enlisted in the Navy during WW2 and got a trade. The military was another way to make losers useful. With a little discipline, some turned into valuable people.

King Karma: So, you are saying in order to have any kind of future to be connected to the Mafia? Like I said before we cant expect people to suddenly get resources and jobs from family since not everyone has those kind of connections.

Zanjan: My parents didn't have any connections, and neither did I as a young parent. But we can certainly be resourceful for the sake of our children. Of course, you can't make a parent love their child enough for them to put in such an effort.

I had to fight to have my eldest child put in a regular school classroom because he was autistic - smart, but autistic. What with cutbacks to education and 1 teacher for 36 kids in a classroom, they didn't need anyone to be asking questions to slow them down.

Well, I helped my child and he got in and graduated with excellent marks. As a teenager, he had a lot of frustration, both with his learning difference and dumb jerks who gave him a hard time for being different., He'd get so angry. So, I got him signed up in Cadets - turned him into a man who was very confident and secure. He wanted to go into the reserves but he didn't qualify because he had asthma.

The military officers had met with parents for a great discussion. Most of their Cadets were troubled young men who landed in jail. The judge gave them a chance by telling them their time would be served in Cadets. I heard amazing stories how that turned some incorrigible teens around...gave them something they could be proud of, plus status and respect. The military offers more training and trades than any college, and they get a paid as they learn. But you'd better dam well have shiny boots or you're in the can.

Everyone has a talent and there's a place for everyone. I'm not going to give to charity to keep street kids off drugs.