Would you rather go to prison or church?
Aura: This might sound like a fun theoretical question, just like 'would you rather be a prince or a president', but usually the debate is started with the knowledge that you will probably do neither.
But what if it's a judge asking?
And no, this isn't even about AA (we already had that discussion a while back) but actual church every Sunday for the next ten years. This is the choice a teen faces. Church or prison.
Read the story here: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2012/11/texas_judge_sentences_a_teenage_drunk_driver_to_church_attendance.html
Now, the judge believes that religion would install some morals (I find it very hard to believe he would do it only to piss people off) and however misguided and unconstitutional, I am tempted to agree that prison will do more harm than good in this particular case. So what should he have done?
Personally, I think there should be a third option here. Prison, church or enlist. Yep. Boot-camp, see if the drill Sargent can make a man out of this boy.
Stewart75: Boot camp, yep........... tough stuff..........
Good thread CoffeeMonster.............. boot camp is tough stuff............
I prefer church myself, I'm a Roman Catholic........... don't go to mass much these days, though church is a nice peaceful place to visit with my kids........... makes us feel good............. I like that feeling.............
ShawnXx: A judge shouldn't be allowed to force someone to go to church...you can't force religion on someone.
Whimsical Fairy: Boot camp used to be the option in the USA. It was prison or boot camp. They stopped that practice a number of years ago. The military decided that they didn't want them.
Stewart75: Address me Geoff.............. r u talking to me Geoff...?................ guess you are............
Then why make such a stupid statement saying "Jail ain't so bad"...?....................
Geoff: I was quoting Futurama, Stewart.
Surely the utter ridiculousness of my statement should have made it evident that I was not being serious.
Stewart75: Never sure with you Geoff................as you always "utter ridiculousness"................
Sarcastic Dots: Send him to AA.
And really, I have to agree with the belief than involuntary national service made up of the dregs of society is probably a hindrance to the military. I mean, having the option to join the military would be nice, but having people who don't want to be there just lowers the morale of the entire group.
American Judges were often far wrong in what they thought they could do. What people think is their own business and people are sent to jail or fined because they commit crimes not because of what they think. We don,t have to guess what other people to go about our own lives.
(Edited by duncan124)
harlett anathema: hmmm....boot camp can kill u .....so can going 2 jail.....i'd opt for church where i can tune out the sermon....along with darn near everyone else...
ShawnXx: If a teenager breaks the law boot camp is probably the best option because they may just need discipline. The military targets troubled teenagers in high school and being the daughter of a former drill sergeant I know there are a lot of guys who are in need of discipline. The military can make a man out of boys and also make them proud.
Whimsical Fairy: Well, a judge or prosecutor can do whatever they please (within the limits of the law for their jurisdiction), but -- that doesn't mean the military branches are required to accept such people and -- they don't.
The Army addresses this issue in the Army Recruiting Regulation, Army Regulation 601-210, paragraph 4-8b: "Applicant who, as a condition for any civil conviction or adverse disposition or any other reason through a civil or criminal court, is ordered or subjected to a sentence that implies or imposes enlistment into the Armed Forces of the United States is not eligible for enlistment.."
The Air Force Recruiting Regulation, AETCI 36-2002, table 1-1, lines 7 and 8, makes an applicant ineligible for enlistment if they are "released from restraint, or civil suit, or charges on the condition of entering military service, if the restraint, civil suit, or criminal charges would be reinstated if the applicant does not enter military service."
The Marine Corps Recruiting Regulation, MCO P1100.72B, Chapter 3, Section 2, Part H, Paragraph 12 states: "Applicants may not enlist as an alternative to criminal prosecution, indictment, incarceration, parole, probation, or other punitive sentence. They are ineligible for enlistment until the original assigned sentence would have been completed."
In the Coast Guard, enlistment prohibition is contained in the Coast Guard Recruiting Manual, M1100.2D, Table 2-A.
Interestingly, the Navy Recruiting Manual, COMNAVCRUITCOMINST 1130.8F, does not appear to contain any provisions which would make such applicants ineligible for enlistment. However, I've been informed by several Navy recruiters that the Navy will not accept applicants for service, as an alternative to criminal prosecution or other punitive sentence.
NOTE- The above pertains to the USA
ShawnXx: They don't anymore but they used to accept law breakers and I really don't understand why. I've sat in court rooms and watched people with drug offenses choose military and I think it's better than filling up jails or prison with people who can actually change their life for the better.
The Military has nothing to do with law and order. Navys sometimes have to deal with criminal behaviour and the US navy has 'Historical' issues with who is who.
Your not think of community service are you when you say drugees have opted for military service? What sentences Judges can pass after a jury finds someone guilty is prescribed by law and they have only to interpret it regarding the circumstances of the crime. Judges do between them decide if sentences are working or appropriate and Magistrates are very much told what they can order as a remedy.
Azathoth: SoSweetly and I have actually seen and heard judges state that if the person were to join a military branch, then the community service would be dropped. This was not in circuit court but in general sessions. There was no jury, only a judge.
Azathoth: I should say it's obviously not in circuit or civil court, but it was in a general sessions and didn't warrant a grand jury, as the judge made this his verdict...so it needn't go further along in the process.