Feel the Pain,,,stop cruelty (Page 3)

I was here: Do you belong to any organizations that help stop animal abuse?

Ms Aryaa: If you mean PETA or that kinds of organizations working at a national level....No.
Tinkerbell, I belong to Jain community, and the community works for various causes of animals.
We as members of that community, take part in various activities that suits us in our busy life.
Like I posted in my other thread, I donate money for animal-shelter.

I was here: I would be interested in hearing about those various activities.

Ms Aryaa: okay, I will post about the activities soon.
[going out to watch movie MI-The Ghost Protocol. So maybe tomorrow or on weekends]

I was here: Wonderful, I look forward to that. I never thought about animal abuse before I came to forums a few years back. I wasn't raised with the knowledge it even existed. To find that not everyone treats animals with respect, I find very upsetting. I would like to learn what I can do to help stop it.

I was here: I had time to kill so I have been spending the last few hours researching the Jain community. That took me immediatly to Jainism, a religion.

Ayraa, just to be clear I have a question for you.

Do you consider anyone who eats meat an animal abuser?

Jetters: Tink, I didnt know the scope of what happens in the world until FB. I never thought to google "animal abuse", but suddenly I was being made aware of things you would never dream of, cruelty you couldnt even imagine. There are soldiers in Europe who use live dogs as target practise for knife throwing, live dogs are hooked like fish and used to bait sharks...believe me, if you dont have some of this knowledge and pictures in your mind, you dont want them. You'll never sleep the same way again..

There are many organisations that help stop these things. I particularly like WSPA - they work internationally, on things such as freeing bears used in bear baiting matches, bears in bear bile farms in Korea etc. They also take away the bears used by Romanians, as wandering street entertainment BUT they do all this while finding alternative employment for these people and educating 3rd world villages on proper care of donkeys etc (which quite literally are worked to death)..

Also,in Bali recently, they worked with the government to vaccinate hundreds of thousands of stray dogs with rabies vaccine etc, as the Balinese were killing the strays with strichnine (spelling?) causing them agonising deaths.

Wow this is long, sorry! Plus obviously the normal internal animal cruelty prevention orgs within each country, such as the ASPCA in America.

I was here: How terrible You're right...I don't know if I want to know all the horrors of the rampant animal abuse. We have always treated our animals and pets so kind...I have such a tough time understanding how anyone could treat animals the way I hear described.

I don't think your post was too long at all, I appreciate the information. Thank you.

PureSilver67: Sorry to jump in - I'm just going to put my thoughts up ... And mine is longer sorry

I eat beef, pork, lamb/ mutton, deer, roo, chicken and seafood.

My view is that all except some seafood and roo is able to be farmed i.e. have been domesticated and reproduce regularly in human defined conditions.

As much as possible I source from free range - on my budget this is not always possible. Nevertheless, I believe in the ethical treatment of animals, humane killing and the use of everything. Taking as an example beef - that the hide is used for leather and the bones/ offal is used for pet food or fertiliser etc. The roo, as far as I can ascertain is killed instantaneously by shooting in areas where they are in higher numbers than the environment can sustain. The deer, I have when I am at a friend’s house and he shoots them. They are feral here in Australia. Again, he is an excellent marksman and I’d think that the deer really doesn’t know what hit it.

While I have heard and seen horrific things both in individual (private) instances of terrible treatment of animals and in companies/ organisations such as "factory" farms of chickens or pigs or bad practices in slaughter houses -
there is also a great deal of GOOD treatment and good work by many.

In the 1990s (as a research student) I was tasked with collecting fresh blood from cattle, sheep and pigs at an abattoir in Brisbane. This was over a year and I witnessed the animals being killed with the stun (electric shock) or the bolt. The throats are slit immediately after - which is when I collected the blood. Why? - for a researcher to test whether it was possible to use any of these types of blood to be transfused to humans because there are not enough blood donors. (I do not know the outcome of the research - needless to say, I haven't heard of any being used and yes there could be a whole topic just for or against this). At this abattoir the treatment was as good as it could be and the killing as quickly as possible even in the rare instances where the shock or bolt misfired. And it was a clean facility - no "stink" of death etc.

To put also another context on this wide ranging subject, there will be instances where people accuse even the RSPCA or PETA or the like of abuse of animals. One point is that RSPCA in particular "put to sleep" many 100s of animals each year, either because they can’t be saved medically, they can’t be rehomed because past abuse has inflicted such horrific mental scars that the animal does not trust anyone or JUST because people let their animals breed and breed and breed and there are not enough homes. I once had a conversation with a veterinary who ran an animal welfare organisation (I think, but don’t quote me, in India) – they were trying to capture as many street dogs as possible and neuter them. It’s my personal view that putting many to sleep was the better option as although they could no longer breed, many dogs still lived in horrific conditions and many also starved. We disagreed. It was their organisation after all and they continue to do what they think is best for the animals.

There are many organisations focussing on the welfare of animals and in this day and age a simple Google search finds local, state, national and international organisations. Times have also changed and people are more aware and legislation has also made it more difficult to abuse animals (it’s capturing the people doing the harm that is the difficult part). There are also people who will never care how their food reaches their plate - mainly because they focus on other issues.

Yes, I contribute - in time and $$ when I can, so that varies from sometimes being a member for a year to some time now and then to nothing for a little while. Not because my ethics have changed but because my financial/ personal circumstances change.

I am currently a member of the Australian Marine Conservation Society - which puts out a Sustainable Seafood guide, a member of the RSPCA (Queensland branch of the Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) and a member of Wildlife Society Queensland.

My overriding belief is the humane killing of an animal and use of it as a whole. I have educated my children and at every opportunity build awareness of cruetly to animals.

Ms Aryaa: @TinkerBell

Yes, Jainism is a religion and its fundamental principle is 'Ahimsa Param Dharma'.
Ahimsa - Non-Violence [of mind, speech and action] to any living form
Param - Biggest
Dharma - Religion, in context with way of life of its follower.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism

Infact, non-violence is preached in Hinduism and Buddhism too, but in Jainism it is preached to be followed in a more subtle way. Theory of Karma is explained in Jainism in the most scientific way, but people here have no idea whatsoever of what this theory is even at a gross level.

Anyways, your question:

Do you consider anyone who eats meat an animal abuser?

To eat meat falls into person's dietary habits and to abuse animals falls into person's mental perversity....that is how I see it. People abusing animals are kind of sadist personalities.

It is evident in children too in mild form....like small kids abusing an innocent animal rather than playing with it. Though they do it for fun rather than intending to inflict pain to them, but some do it. I remember my school days, when if boys found a lizard, they would cut its tail with scale just to watch its tail moving after the tail was cut....or pull out the beautiful feathers of peacock, unaware that they are causing pain to it.

Jetters: Every serial killer known to man started out abusing animals. Every one. This is not to say that every person who abuses an animal turns INTO a killer of humans, but that link is there, in every case.

Consequences are not harsh enough. Children will mostly have that gross kid urge to burn ants with a magnifying glass etc, I think you are right Aryaa, in as much as they dont realise at some ages what they are doing and what it is causing. When this behaviour goes beyond toddler years, then that child needs to be watched and closely. A distinct lack of empathy is inherit in all sociopaths....and this small starting point with animals and a lack of care, can manifest in adult life as something far worse.

Jetters: @ Pure, I agree with the stray dog situation. I would myself prefer they were put to sleep as most live horrible lives, lonely and hungry. This all comes backs to idiotic humans though. People dont desex their animals, dump their animals and treat them like handbags that can be updated every year. People need to be educated and place more value on the lives they are tossing aside. Certainly western countries have no excuse. We dont see many dogs roaming around here, but they are all picked up and dont have a long life once they hit the pound Other countries dont have that set up, so they are let populate uncontrollably. Its putrid that people can walk past a stray , starving animal and pretend they dont see it.

Edit: People selling their animals online such as Gumtree...I saw one the other day in the UK...9 month old rotty and they were going on hols, whoops cant take the dog. Ever hear of a kennel?? These are working "normal" average intelligence people.....It doesnt say much for the human race.

PureSilver67: @ Aryaa - I also hadn't heard of Jainism until I met you in here. It's lovely the diversity of beliefs in here. The gentler faiths definitely have very positive aspects to them.

@ Jetters - totally, totally agree - we need way more education of people. And especially at this time of year when animals are treated as a gift for the time being while they are cute and or as long as the kid has interest. Friends of mine have gone up north (lucky buggas) for holiday and we are taking care of their two dogs. Our dog thinks it's play heaven. And when the girls and I did our trip, my parents took care of both our cat and dog. Kennels are also a great option.

Up here (rural) we have problems with stray dogs mating with the no longer pure dingos and the wild dog mix then attack the livestock. They are killed with poison baits or shot. While the preference is for the latter way of kiling the ultimate would be to have people control their animals and have them desexed in the first place.

slasian: Well I am going to be the first male in this forum.

Animal cruelty should be treated from its two separate angles. One is the personal thing, yeah people abuse animals whether wild or pet just to have fun or to get it out on them, it is bad, too bad. The other angle is the business side. People seem to abuse animals to maximize their profit, they confine them is narrow cages and slaughter them in painful but cost effective way, its bad but not too bad.

What the world can do is control the business side in a civilized fashion; either stop buying the products unless the animals are treated in a kind way, it may sound contradictory cos though we are going to kill and eat ‘em we have to respect ‘em but it is not and one can learn the same kindness from the rituals of the red Indians hunting practice, or agree to let it go in a way that their misery is necessary as long us the fate of those animals was death in the first place, and food price will be higher if they are given the luxury. Donkeys, horses and camels also fall under this category people in the third world had to live, they had to work and unlike the west they do not have the transportation or the facility so what can they do despite using these animals work till their death? Honestly what kind of alternates do they have, in fact the people also work to death, and they share the burdens of these domestic animals too.

But I totally refute animal abuse just for personal satisfaction and the world can go for strict measurements toward perpetrators of such kind as well. Even the idea of using dogs as bate to sharks fall under this category for me, one there is plenty of option to use as abate and two sharks are also being hunted to their extinction.

Edit: I used to get high with A Rastafarian man, in one of those days he saw me eating a burger after getting high and he scold me harshly. His reason was, when the animal was killed some kind of fear and shadow of death will be imprinted in its essence and the meat will also carry that thing, he said unlike the Babylonians we use marijuana to cleanth our vision and soul hence never eat meat in such times. I know that all true Rastafarians are vegetarians but I had never heard this side before and I do my own research to my amazement I found out that there is possibility of some toxic elements being released in the time of slaughter. So it is also healthy to eat an abused animal for us too.

PureSilver67: sustainable seafood option (australia)

http://www.thegreenpages.com.au/news/sustainable-victorian-seafood-in-time-for-christmas/

slasian: Pure silver, you had to careful on the roo stuff, Kangaroos cannot be farmed. They cannot be herded or driven into yards or abattoirs because they get too stressed (capture myopathy) and the lactic acid builds up in their muscles causing the meat to go rancid and become inedible. Nor can they be transported live unless the appropriate techniques and medications are used.

In most cases the fear toxic released by the Kangaroo makes the meat unhealthy. Lol

PureSilver67: @ slasian - thanks, I do know all that ... I said they are shot (in the same way more-or-less as deer, not knowing quite what hit them)

Roo tastes very nice by the way.

slasian: I want to taste it some day too.

Ms Aryaa: "Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web,we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect"
-- Chief Seattle.

PureSilver67: Exactly Aryaa - people forget (don't want to acknowledge) that we are PART of, not separate from the web of life - we are but an animal and sometimes I truly wonder how "advanced".

I was here: Within the web of life, there is a food chain.

Soooo, I guess I'm not really following Aryaa's line of thinking with her quote.

Anyways, Aryaa...were you still going to post the specific things you do to help stop animal abuse?

PureSilver67: That food chain is a thread within the web of life, Tink. Therefore if humans alter the chain in some form or another .. then in turn it will affect us .. as through the web, it's all connected.

Ms Aryaa: @Tinkerbell

It is not difficult to understand. We, modern-world humans don't live in harmony with Nature, like the natives of each land like the red-indians, and many others lived. To live in harmony, means to accept our place/role as part of this big-play of Nature. But, humans think and live as if everything that Nature provides is just for them to use it or waste it as their whims suggest.
If you talk about food-chain, why we humans think we are top of food-chain? No, we are not.
and why have we broken this food-chain? Because we are the most stupid species hell-bent to bring our own extinction.
In Nature, each and every species live in harmony, use the resources to sustain its life and carry on its evolution-journey. Their behaviour is such that that the resource of Nature is used 100% and the balance is maintained. Lion kills only when it is hungry. When a lion kills, it is fed, hyenas feed, vultures feed and in the end the kill is completely used up by other parasites. Not a single part of the kill is wasted...and that is how its food chain is completed and the balance is maintained.
How all things are bound together...how all things connect ? I copy/paste a simple campaign that was made to create awareness To save Tigers in India.

Saving the tiger means saving mankind..

Not only is tiger a beautiful animal but it is also the indicator of the forest's health. Saving the tiger means we save the forest since tiger cannot live in places where trees have vanished and in turn secure food and water for all.

If we make sure tigers live, we have to make sure that deer, antelope and all other animals that the tiger eats (its prey base) live. To make sure that these herbivores live, we must make sure that all the trees, grass and other plants that these prey animals need for food are protected. In this way, the whole forest gets saved! Saving the tiger means saving its entire forest kingdom with all the other animals in it.

Also forests catch and help store rainwater and protect soils. In this way we protect our rivers and recharge groundwater sources. Areas with less trees lead to floods, killing people and destroying homes. It takes away the precious soil, leaving behind a wasteland. The soil jams up our lakes and dams, reducing their ability to store water. By destroying the tiger's home, we not only harm tigers, but also ourselves.

The tiger thus becomes the symbol for the protection of all species on our earth since it is at the top of the foodchain. This is why we sometimes call the tiger, an apex predator, an indicator of our ecosystem's health