Raise the price of fuel can solve problems?

IanCheap: Some people think the best way to solve the environmental problems is raise the price of fuel.To what extent do you agree?

RocktheFlaminCowboy: Only if there is a discount price for those of us that need a vehicle to earn a living such as contractors. Try carrying your tools of trade on a bicycle.

Outbackjack: What is inevitable is that prices will rise due to dwindling amounts of fossil fuels.
The only problem being is that a lot of the oil companies have anticipated this and have bought up a lot of patents and are sitting on them.

RocktheFlaminCowboy: But when will they get up off them.

Outbackjack: When the cost of fuel is out of reach of most people and their patents become profitable.

habo9: No I dont agree , petrol should be a lot cheaper than it is!!!! Global warming is a lot of rubbish spewed out to get the minions to fill the coffers of the greedy and for governments to squeeze more cash out of you ,kidding on its for your benefit.

FACT 1. In the 16th century earth was a lot warmer than it is today , I ask the question "where was all the fossil fuel getting used then?"

FACT 2. Mars in the same amount of time as here on earth the temprature has risen 0.5 of a degree , as far as I know Mars doesnt have cars or people but no doubt soon petrol prices will go up to save Mars

Its about time people realized we are getting fleeced plus also during the history of earth the ice caps have melted a few times , stick that in your pipe treehuggers!!!!!!!

Outbackjack: We could go around in circles about the causes of Global Warming.
There is no doubt that this is happening.
It is also a pollution issue,we need clean fuel technology for the health of this planet.
Fuel prices will go up regardless of what happens with global warming as our resources are finite.

RocktheFlaminCowboy: We can't keep going on stripping fossil fuels and not find alternatives and that's obvious to all. Renewable energy is naturally wiser with no obvious argument against, but some reasons for temperature change is simply the movement of the whole solar system as we know it along other parts of a greater system of the milky way and even greater than that the Virgo Cluster. We've had global warming and ice ages before and will keep having them but that is no excuse to continue polluting the possibly only inhabitable planet in existence. Problem is are we causing it and can we control it or are the powers to be finding a new way to fleece the sheep. Having less instead of being mass consumers would help right off. Each generation had less and wasn't any less happy in fact the simplicity of life was most probably less stressful. I already can vouch for that over the last 30 years.

habo9: I agree clean energy is the only way foward , you right we cant keep going on polluting the earth , the oceans and the air!! But also how can we blame oil for being the cause of global warming , when obviously in my previous post these things happened or are happening elsewhere to the same degree, do you know the last ice age all but ended in 50 years now that is a quick rise in temprature even quicker than is happening just now at least a 10 - 15 degree rise if not more, again not many people or cars.

The things is these things happen and they happen very quickly only thing is this time when its happening , we have recorded history and its the first time as a species we realize its happening in our lifetime whereas before we just lived through because we didnt realize what was going on but to solely blame it on petrol is ridiculouis we only have history we can truly rely on from the past 150 years so to go by this evidence of only 150 years isnt right.....in the 70s they were warning of a new ice age , in this age with the media nobody reports good news its always the bad or wrong news actually I will call it alarmist news theres always some big disaster round the corner a few years ago it was meteorites , in the 50s it was alien invasions , the 80s was the ozone layer..and during the 60s they were saying oil would run out soon in fact they say it every year and I bet you we still have plenty of oil in another 50 years , to kid on we have hardly any keeps the prices up again , there are vast oil fields undiscovered yet plus there is plenty of oil fields under the ice caps , probably more than we have used just now but to blame car users for global warming is just wrong. Why blame the man on the street? when these mass global companys are doing more damage to the earth than your ordinary joe , ripping up our rain forests to produce KFCs plus what is it with this bio fuel , do you know how many trees they cut down to produce this? they cut down too many trees to make this a viable answer but because theres money in it they will keep doing it not for the good of the earth but to line there own pockets.

Johnny_Vidal: WOW .. what opinion "Habo" or should I say a book instead of opinion..lol.. i'm kidding man, nice opinion for real, there's a lot of true in it.

jokes and comments apart, The Green House Effect and other things related to our world are extremely important.. raise the price of fuel just won't happen no matter what[by the way.. really funny the opinion about carry things in a bike, its ironic.. add me and I explain to u], and We cannot blame the use of fuel cause would not solve anything to do it..

I believe we must think and act always focusing in what what we're doing and how its affects the nature, the weather, OUR world.

If in somehow we could avoid use the car somedays and try to get some Public means of Transportation or even use the car only if necessary like work or anything else really important..but not to buy a soda near your house for example.

However Powerful people must turn to this subject too.. and we can see some companies doing their part and taking care to the eletronic garbage that they produce for example.. companies like IBM, Sony Ericsson. Famous people like Paul David Hewson.. who??.. BONO from U2, really giving their contribution to the "green thought" and also efforts to turn people to this cause.

I know that it seens like nothing but I believe that it really makes a some difference... and not just concerned about the Global warming matter but Our relation to the other people at all.

I have to say that I'm not so confident that We can avoid once for all the melting of polar cap for example and the raise of Ocean's nivel but we can be prepared to face and take better decisions in the future about use our natural resources.

Post your ideas people.. lets share information...

Johnny Vidal

Nahtura: I think if we are looking at the lowering or rising of pricing to solve world environment issues, We are looking in the wrong area. Education is our best offensive on the un-green minded populace. Money will only ever cause issues, not solve them.

/end 2 cents worth

Outbackjack: Education is a great idea.
But how do you educate the oil companies and car companies?

Nahtura: Our most powerful yet most overlooked ability. Choice. The day to day decisions we all make govern everything that happens. More and more people are starting to smell the roses, people are reycycling more, eating organic foods, caring about carbon foot prints. Its never been easier to live consciously. The companies have no power without consumers. We can not point the finger until there is no dirt under our own nails. To be quite frank, it's a life time commitment. Lead by example my friends, it is the only way.

habo9: Recycling is a good idea but in theory its all about profit margins again , do you know its cheaper to send ships all the way from China to the UK to collect our stuff to recycle back in China than it is to do our own recycling here , so whats the point then they send it back here again? Profit margins its cheaper to send the stuff halfway round the world and burn all that fuel than it is to do it in our own backyard , plus it looks better on our CO2 ommisions send it somewhere else!!!

TopherMC: Ther is no shortage of fuel ... My uncle is a geologist in Calgary... Basically, Calgary ALONE has enough oil to supply the world for the next 50 years. The world has enough oil for the next 4000 years at the rate we use it.

The biggest expense in oil is refining & transporting. There is no shortage of it. So it really has nothing to do with Supply and Demand.

Oil is the one anomoly in or economy... It has more to do with political relationships than it does actual supply and demand.

Outbackjack: Enough oil to supply the world for 4000 years?
I would like to see some references to this.

TopherMC: Cambridge Energy Research Associates - this is the, or at least one of, the companies that the Canadian government uses for their geological research. Their current research says there is enough oil in the world to last "122 years" at current rates.

But that is based on the basic fact of current drilling practices. Which only taps into roughly 2% - 6% of the total available oil in that reserve (depnding on the soil, and "economic need" ). There is not one drill in the world that is designed to go deeper then 6% of the reserve (it economically wouldn't make sense to do so)... So all of our oil drilling practices is like using a 1 inch straw to drink a 2 litre bottle of coke. So that "122 year" figure is based on drilling 6% (on the high end) of every current known reserve.

So I guess if you do the math, we have enough for 2033 years...(100*122) / 6 ... So 4000 was a little exageration... but my basic point about supply and demand having no baring on oil still stands.

Johnny_Vidal: Well I agree with Nahtura's opininio and I think that if many people change their habits and thoughts about the environmental issues we can push the oil companies to make some effort to invest in more technologies like develop biofuels in large scale..
And analysing the Toper's opinion and his complex math ..lol.. 2033 is almost nothing .. so I believe that its important concentrate in the clean technology like renewable enery[wind power, solar power, biomass, hydropower..], eletric motors, green transportations.. and another things that will allow to us to create electricity[efficiantly] and a sort of fuel with a "smaller environmental footprint".

FogofWar: Habo9, you are so naive. There is no doubt the planet is warming up. Global warming is occurring.


"FACT 1. In the 16th century earth was a lot warmer than it is today , I ask the question "where was all the fossil fuel getting used then?""

The 16th century saw glacial expansions in the Alps, how could this occur if it was warmer than today? Winter temperatures were colder in the 16th century than the 20th century. The summer had three periods of almost equal length, the second of which was 0.3ºC warmer than those of the 20th century. That period however is believed to have cold extremes throughout as opposed to our more constant summer heat. From 1560 on, the summers were cooler than that of the 20th century.

REAL FACT 1: The 16th century was cooler than it is today. In fact, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) scientists have confirmed that the temperature of the Northern Hemisphere has not been this high for a thousand years.
NASA scientists say the Arctic Ocean has lost a fifth of its sea ice since the 1970s, an area twice the size of Texas.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/clim/1999/*******3/*******1/*******6

http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0113-23.htm


"FACT 2. Mars in the same amount of time as here on earth the temprature has risen 0.5 of a degree , as far as I know Mars doesnt have cars or people but no doubt soon petrol prices will go up to save Mars"


REAL FACT 2: Temperatures on Earth have risen 0.5-1.7ºC, greater than that of Mars. Temperatures on Earth are rising faster than ever, the ocean levels are rising faster than predicted. Ice from the polar ice caps has dwindled in size, and is melting more rapidly than expected.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070201-global-warming.html



REAL FACT 3: the warming of the past 30 years, from 1970 to the present, is unexplainable by any known natural cause. In any case, considerable further warming is very likely if emissions continue as in the past.

http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/globalchange/global_warming/03.html


"Its about time people realized we are getting fleeced plus also during the history of earth the ice caps have melted a few times , stick that in your pipe treehuggers!!!!!!!"

No one is arguing that the ice caps have melted in the past, as no one is arguing that there have been several ice ages either. The planet works in cycles: It freezes over, then it melts away, then it repeats. The planet just had an ice age last, and now it is time for it to warm up; and that means global warming; but this does not mean that we are not contributing to it. It is inevitable yes, but with our current methods and constant pollution, we are speeding up the inevitable. The planet will survive, but we surely won't; and we have no one to blame but ourselves. It is scientific fact that Carbon Dioxide gas produces a barrier that heat does not escape from, the planet Venus has taught us that. There is no doubt that CO2 emmissions are higher than they have ever been. It doesn't take a scientist to realize the reality of global warming. Every person on Earth contributes roughly one ton of carbon into the atmosphere per year, there is no doubt this plays a roll in the warming of the planet. The average American per capita emission is 5 tons of carbon annually.

The gases are not the only cause of warming however; the world has never seen as much asphalt as it has in recent times. With all this asphalt covering the planet, it increases the temperature as well....should we remove all the asphalt roads on the planet, we would see a rather drastic temperature drop as well.

FogofWar: "do you know the last ice age all but ended in 50 years now that is a quick rise in temprature even quicker than is happening just now at least a 10 - 15 degree rise if not more, again not many people or cars."

That is completely wrong. The average Ice Age, or Glacial Period, lasts between 80,000 and 100,000 years.

http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/eae/Climate_Change/Older/Ice_Ages.html



"The things is these things happen and they happen very quickly only thing is this time when its happening , we have recorded history and its the first time as a species we realize its happening in our lifetime whereas before we just lived through because we didnt realize what was going on but to solely blame it on petrol is ridiculouis we only have history we can truly rely on from the past 150 years so to go by this evidence of only 150 years isnt right....."

There is nothing quick about it. The average Ice Age lasts between 80,000 and 100,000 years, and the average warming period lasts about 10,000 years. This is not fast in the terms you think, and is far from a mere 50 years. We have documented history for the last century, but we have written records from prior to that, and although not 100% reliable, or effective in their measurements of temperature, we can also study warm seasons like summer based off of the size of average tree growth rings, and other plant life; to get a rather detailed description of what the temperature was like.


"Why blame the man on the street? when these mass global companys are doing more damage to the earth than your ordinary joe , ripping up our rain forests to produce KFCs plus what is it with this bio fuel"

...and who is purchasing that KFC and fuel? The way of the world hey, blame someone else. Like Rocktheflamincowboy said, it is the average joe that is consuming these products, and causing these companies to continue mass producing their products and expanding their business. It IS the average Joe that is responsible, and until we as a society begin to take responsibility for our actions, we will continue to ignore reality and try to lay the blame on someone else...look how far that is getting us.

"they cut down too many trees to make this a viable answer but because theres money in it they will keep doing it not for the good of the earth but to line there own pockets."

...with YOUR money!

FogofWar: "Education is a great idea.
But how do you educate the oil companies and car companies?"

Simply Jack, by educating the consumer of their products. If there is no demand for a product, then it will not be produced. If GM sold over 6 million hybrid cars in a month, and only 5,000 SUVs, they would be very likely to drop many of the SUVs that are bottom of the sales, and begin producing newer and flashier hybrids.


"Recycling is a good idea but in theory its all about profit margins again , do you know its cheaper to send ships all the way from China to the UK to collect our stuff to recycle back in China than it is to do our own recycling here , so whats the point then they send it back here again? Profit margins its cheaper to send the stuff halfway round the world and burn all that fuel than it is to do it in our own backyard , plus it looks better on our CO2 ommisions send it somewhere else!!!"

Habo, I'd like to see you try and provide evidence for this claim.


"Ther is no shortage of fuel ... My uncle is a geologist in Calgary... Basically, Calgary ALONE has enough oil to supply the world for the next 50 years. The world has enough oil for the next 4000 years at the rate we use it."

Topher, My borther works out of Conoco Phillips based from Calgary, and what's even funnier, is that Saskatchewan at the moment is suspected to contain even more oil than Alberta has left. I've seen that in the gas industry also. When I was younger, I worked as a pressure well tester; and I always laughed when people told Me about the fact that there is a natural gas shortage; how we are running out of it. I'd laugh when I told them that after we frac'ed a well, we had to monitor it's pressure to make sure it was worth tapping; during this time, we burned off the excess gas that vented out of the well. Each well we tested, we burned off more than enough gas to heat one house for an entire lifetime. How can you tell Me there is a shortage when we are wasting this much of it?

Outbackjack: Educating the consumer is part of it no doubt,but how often do you see people fuelling up at a petrol station that is 10 cents a litre dearer for example.

One of the things that people need to be aware of is that companies like BP are buying up a lot of renewable patents and just sitting on them.

habo9: Dont have to prove this claim , I watched it on the news a few months ago , people where in an uproar about it !!!!

habo9: Fogofwar everything I said is true , if I could be bother looking them up again I would give you the websites or books I have read but obviously you just believe what you see , some of these claims come from the co-founder of Greenpeace , cant mind his name he left Greenpeace because of all the scaremongering and not giving out actual facts and trying to scare the world into believing them , just delve deeper you will find them !!!

Also I never said man wasnt to blame , I said how can we blame oil alone as being the cause of the greenhouse effect!!

So before you jump on your hippy bandwagon , read before you think you know everything , thanks for wasting my time!!!!!!!

FogofWar: True Outback, but that is where marketting can also play a factor. Hybrids are becoming popular here, not just because the green style is becoming the new 'in' thing, but because thhe term 'hybrid' has that cool sound to it, same reason Toyota was selling soo many Matrixes...the average person doesn't even understand what exactly a matrix is, but it sounds cool, because of the movie. The more flash, the more people want it. If you market the Smart Car as a "Crossbreed", or call it an XUV (instead of SUV), or anything along those lines; it will sell. My mother used to work as a car salesman...she saw a dealership that was owned by the same person as the one she worked for stick a decal on a Cavalier, Z-21, or something (Not even a real model of that car), and they sold it for an additional $4,000 because of the 'sports packaging' which was nothing more than a decal. Coca-Cola pop machines here have pictures of ice molded into the image of women in sexy poses....it is amazing how easy marketing is in this sence. I love watching the news here, and seeing them interviewing average people at the gas pumps complain about the rising fuel prices....they interviewed a man fuelling his one-ton pickup, with a V-8 powerstroke, boared out and pushing 300 HP, and a lady fuelling up a Chevy Tahoe, another V-8, which sucks back damn near 3 times as much fuel as the average six cylinder car; and both were complaining about how they wouldn't be able to afford it if the price were to get any higher....point is, you can sell anything to people if you make it flashy and 'affordable'. Take recycling for example. It costs tax money to start up a plan like the 'blue box' plan (a box with which you can put recyclables and take out with your trash). If everyone were to recycle though, think of how much fewer 'environmental fees' there would be, etc. It's just a matter of where to direct the money, it won't cost anymore...it's just something that has to occur in baby steps is all.

FogofWar: Habo9 said:

"Dont have to prove this claim , I watched it on the news a few months ago , people where in an uproar about it !!!!"


I hate to break this to you habo, but news reporters lie! Why just a month or two ago, I watched the CBC News; the National; tell Canadians that it IS possible to contract the swine flu from eating pork! The more they can get people into an uproar, the more people will talk about it, and the more people will tune in next time. Don't believe everything you see on TV or read on the net.

Habo, I know all about Greenpeace, and I am in no way shape or form supportive of those organizations. In reality, Greenpeace, as well as PETA and other similar organizations do far more damage than good; and you are proving that. I am by no means an environmentalist, but I do understand the necessity of becoming more green. The word "environmental" is often associated with movements like Greenpeace (as you have done here), and that tends to invoke feelings of hypocrasy, and often hatred, towards the entire environmental cause...it's the same as the dreadlocked, jobless hippies flooding the streets on April 20th to smoke joints in protest against the outlaw of marijuana...that does NOT promote their cause, but takes away from it by fuelling the stereotypes people often associate with them. You say I am a hippy, HA HA! I am nothing remotely close to a hippy, I am a member of the Canadian Forces (hippies tend to be anti-war), and have worked in the oil industry of which we are speaking. I live in the worlds sexond largest oil producing nation; in the heart of what is called "Oil Country"...hence our National Hockey league (NHL) team is the Edmonton Oilers...tell you what, if you want I will take pictures of our local industrial section so you can see first hand the millions of gallons of oil that is burned off in smokestacks that are alit 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. I am not saying that the petroleum industry is the only cause of the greenhouse effect, but they are responsible for roughly 60% of greenhouse emitions, I believe. I see first hand the damage this industry does; the smog it puts in our air; the smell of burning oil constantly present; the high levels of H2S gas in our province, and the lack of fresh air in our cities (in fact, when I lived in Lloydminster, I lived just on the edge of the EVAC Zone of the Lloydminster Oil refinery [one of the largest in North America], and had a biohazard warning sign that said the air quality in the area may cause health problems), which is responsible for many of the health problems we see in our medical system.