What exactly is numerology ?

JacquesTrappe: What's the difference between something like polysemic qualities of Akkadian cuneiform or Koine Greek VS Hieratic numerals VS something like gematria ?

Anybody want to take a stab at setting the record straight ?

I always found " numerology " to be a generalization and think that generalizations are the act of a lazy mind

Thoughts ?

JacquesTrappe: I really started this for " shadowslacker ", since he had some smartass remarks in chat the other day, but I guess expecting someone to back up their words is asking too much

Shadowslacker: Firstly, a word can't be a generalization. Other than proper nouns, the whole point of nouns is to apply to a lot of things. "Animal" is pretty general, "mammal" more specific, "cat" more specific still. "Baudrillard O'Meowly" is the name of my cat and only applies to him, or would if I had a cat.
So "numerology" cant be a generalization, but I can think of a couple of things you might mean when you call it one.
First, you might mean that some people are too quick to apply it, using it as a catch-all for anything to do with numbers that sounds remotely exotic, unusual or unorthodox, and doing so without investigating first. If that's what you mean, I agree that people shouldn't do it but deny the charge if that's what you're accusing me of. As I recall I asked a question, something along the lines of "Mathematics in the bible? You don't mean numerology or the bible code or anything like that do you?" I just wanted to know if we were talking about mathematics or numerology.
Second, when you call "numerology" a generalization you might mean that the term is vague and ill-defined, that it's unclear what it should apply to and that it's therefore a useless word that we should stop using. I absolutely deny that "numerology" is such a word, and I'll try to make clear what I mean by it and how it differs from mathematics with an example.

Take the digits 0 to 9, and add them up.
0+1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9 = 45
What's 4+5? 9.
But wait, there's more.
Add any digit to 9, and the digital sum will be that digit!
9+4=13, and 1+3 = 4
9+8=17, and 1+7 = 8
And so on.
So far all of this is mathematics.
But then some people go on to say "Therefore 9 encompasses everything and nothing! Everything, because all the digits 'reduce' to 9! Nothing, because when we add 9 to any digit, the digital sum is the number without the 9! Praise 9, the magic number!"
And that's when it becomes numerology - arbitrarily assigning significance to numbers and numerical patterns beyond the numbers themselves. The pattern above is only true in base 10. If we counted in base 5, 4 would be the magic number that "encompasses everything", whatever that's supposed to mean. Reality does not count in base 10, that's just a human convention, and so anything that relies on counting in base 10 can't be of "cosmic significance".
Please note that I am not accusing you of making this particular mistake about the number 9 or anything similar, I'm just trying to make clear what I mean by numerology and how it differs from mathematics. I think the distinction is a clear and useful one. "The digital sum of the digits 0 to 9 is 9" is mathematics. Expressing this as "9 encompasses everything" and pretending that you've proven it with maths is numerology. One involves rigor and proof, one is just making things up. If you don't think that's a distinction worth making, we have nothing to talk about.
I know nothing about "the difference between something like polysemic qualities of Akkadian cuneiform or Koine Greek VS Hieratic numerals VS something like gematria " and never claimed to, nor did I claim that any of the above are or involve numerology.
A final thought just occurred to me - sudoku involves numbers, but is not mathematics. Ditto phone numbers. If a culture had a recognised convention of letters having number values, it's perfectly possible they might encode extra meaning in their writings using that. It would not be numerology, but it wouldn't be mathematics either. That would be in the realm of codes and ciphers.
In conclusion, I most humbly beg your forgiveness for this reply not being instantaneous. Sure, I'm replying later the same day, but so what? By not replying immediately I have unmasked myself as the lazy minded pseudo-intellectual poser I most surely am. You were right to assume that because I did not reply within minutes that I would not reply at all, just as you were right to assume that nobody has anything better to do than reply to you. The second you brought your post to my attention, I should have focused all my energies upon it and considered myself a moron and a coward if it took me more than 5 minutes. I see now that what I thought I was doing this morning - Christmas shopping - was pure evasion, running like a frightened child from your intellectual might. I go now to live the rest of my life in shame and ignominy.
Sincerely,
Shadowslacker.

JacquesTrappe: " As I recall I asked a question, something along the lines of "Mathematics in the bible? You don't mean numerology or the bible code or anything like that do you?" I just wanted to know if we were talking about mathematics or numerology "

Actually, professor, it went like this

About 6 months ago I mentioned math in the Bible and you gave the same weak response along the lines of " My favorite number x my shoes size = pi " in an attempt to ridicule something you are clueless about

Then you said " I like real math ", but the truth is, you're full of shit, because I've been coming here for about 7 years, hosting rooms and discussions on math and math history, in addition to ancient languages, and I've never one heard you once discuss math you supposedly ' like so much ", when I have discussions about my studies on the regular here on wire

That's not only weak sauce, it just proves how ignorant you really are

But it did also show your cowardice when you chose to not meet for a debate, so I am glad you grew a sack all these months later after being taunted the other night after you once again gave a weak ass " My favorite number x my shoes size = pi " response when I mentioned math and the Bible

Now, if you had something to say about Hebrew or Greek letters also being numbers, that's a basic fact of ancient languages, and not " numerology "

Not that I'd expect someone like you to know that, because you're too busy acting like a knowitall

Prior to the advent of Arabic numerals that's how people did math for 4,500+ years

That's why something can serve as a metrogram, an arithrogram and a logogram simultaneously, which exactly what you find with languages like Hebrew, Akkadian, Sumerian, Egyptian

So the fact you call this " numerology " is indeed a BS generalization

And if you want to seriously discuss mathematics ( I doubt that ) we could start by discussing the use of prime numbers and triangular figurates like 666 in astronomy calculations, since they date back to about 4,000 BC ( Not only well documented, but also regularly used for things like Computus )

So yes, in short, I think you are a dipshit poser, and I have no problem telling you that since you want to be a smartass, but you don't actually have a clue what you are talking about



Your rebuttle ?

JacquesTrappe: Also, what you opened with, cowboy, is called an " argument from incredulity " ( I can't believe it because it sounds strange to me )

It's a specific form of the " argument from ignorance "

That's a logical fallacy, so you already fail at grasping basic logic



I doubt math or languages are going to be easier for you

JacquesTrappe: bah, I didnt even read most of your post because I knew it was bullshit

you used digital roots as an example of numerology ?

if you really knew math you would have just said " digital roots "

lol, you are so full of it

JacquesTrappe: " Firstly, a word can't be a generalization " - Shadowslacker

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalization

In linguistics, a hyponym (from Greek hupó, "under" and ónoma, "name" is a word or phrase whose semantic field is included within that of another word, its hyperonym or hypernym (from Greek hupér, "over" and ónoma, "name".In simpler terms, a hyponym is in a type-of relationship with its hypernym. For example, pigeon, crow, eagle and seagull are all hyponyms of bird (their hypernym); which, in turn, is a hyponym of animal.

Other names for hypernym include umbrella term and blanket term<-----YOU ( Numerology )

The connection of generalization to specialization (or particularization) is reflected in the contrasting words hypernym and hyponym. A hypernym as a generic stands for a class or group of equally ranked items, such as the term tree which stands for equally ranked items such as peach and oak, and the term ship which stands for equally ranked items such as cruiser and steamer. In contrast, a hyponym is one of the items included in the generic, such as peach and oak which are included in tree, and cruiser and steamer which are included in ship. A hypernym is superordinate to a hyponym, and a hyponym is subordinate to a hypernym.







yeah....ok dude

JacquesTrappe: Are you having fun pretending you know what you're talking about ?

lol

JacquesTrappe: glad to see I got under your skin, pleb

JacquesTrappe: suck a fat one, loser