Is there really a God tell me your Opnion (Page 14)

ghostgeek: There's a phenomenon called Wind Setdown. Basically, when the wind blows hard on a body of water it can lower the waterlevel by a few feet. Google it and you will see I'm right.

Now consider the facts, as presented by the gospels. It was night, so it was dark. Also, and this is important, there was a strong wind blowing. The disciples in the boat are heading for Bethsaida, Capernaum, or Gennesaret, depending which gospel you consult, which means they are heading north. The quickest, and safest, way for them to do that in the dark would be to follow the lake's shoreline, where it would also be the shallowest. With the wind blowing hard, as we are told, the water level would fall, grounding the boat on the sandy shore. So those in the boat could row as much as they wanted, they wouldn't go anywhere, just as it's stated in the gospels.

Jesus, meanwhile, has been praying on a hill. When He finishes he sees the boat going nowhere and comes to investigate. Basically, He walks out to it on what is temporarily dry land. Probable there was a foot or two of water near the boat that had to be waded through, but nothing that required Him to swim. For those in the boat, thinking as they did that they were fully afloat, it would seem as if Jesus was walking out to them on the water. Remember, it was dark and the water surface was choppy because of the wind, so it would be hard for them to tell the depth of the water.

What fully confirms that this was a natural event, and not a miracle, is the fact that as Jesus reaches the boat the wind drops. In Matthew, Peter gets out of the boat and likewise walks on water, then he starts to sink as the wind drops. In reality, of course, it's not that Peter is sinking, it's that the water is returning to its normal, higher, level.

ghostgeek: The mind is a powerful thing. If it believes something, no amount of evidence to the contrary will disabuse it.

I K R: well its not that impressive ....loads of people have walked on water....i think its more amazing that 5000 people went to an event n not one thought to pack some lunch

ghostgeek: If you're talking about Jesus feeding the 5,000, I reckon that was a bit of a con also. Yes, I think they took their lunch with them, and I think they left their rubbish behind when they left. That's what the disciples collected in the baskets. I think that by the time Jesus was offering bread and fish most people had already eaten their fill from what they had come with. They just said, Thanks, but no thanks." Easy to feed people who don't want to be fed.

h0nd0: sorry but there is no boat that has a water draft per water displacement value.. that cant touch bottom at a couple feet.. they wouldve been hitting bottom.. i know ive been a fisherman for 32 years and i used a dory which is the flattest boat made.. there is not a mind altering or setting im aware of that can manipulate the water displacement of a vessel.. though a boat can move in a few inches of water it feels the bottom till its totally afloat.. to see a man next to it in a standing position you`d feel the bottom from inside the boat as well.. i know ive done this everyday of my life since i was 13 yrs of age.. no one is that mistaken when it comes to the boat.. everyone feels the boat touch ground.. as far a fisherman.. feeding the poor.. or many.. its possible.. fish are high in protein..(giggle))

ghostgeek: Ok, I don't claim to be an expert where boats are concerned so, h0nd0, you may have a point. Still, I've heard of the Sea of Galilee Boat, which had these dimensions: 27 feet (8.27 meters) long, 7.5 feet (2.3 meters) wide and with a maximum preserved height of 4.3 feet (1.3 meters). The boat's construction conformed to other boats constructed in that part of the Mediterranean during the period between 100 BC and AD 200. Constructed primarily of cedar planks joined together by pegged mortise and tenon joints and nails, the boat was shallow drafted with a flat bottom, allowing it to get very close to the shore while fishing. This boat was discovered in 1986 on the north-west shore of the Sea of Galilee in Israel, exactly the spot where the disciples would have been tugging futilely on their oars.

h0nd0: with a wind gust.. (wind creates wave after wave) so.. every time a boats bow goes up.. the transom or keel goes down.. oars have no significance to the trim of this.. and as you depicted this boat you mention is bigger and weights more than the boats of our time. by natural buoyancy.. this boat would not sink.. but it is most likely a double bowed boat as well.. since waves of wind over a sea grow to a certain height it would be plausible the boat had a bow on both ends as well.. more rocking occurs in duel bowed boats.. therefore oars would be drawn in.. or just used on the bows.. to make sure you wouldnt loose them.. no one knows the condition of this day long ago. its all speculation no matter what we think people saw .. but people(of jesus`s time) have in those days. known so many things including astrological events.. and we (the new age) still are trying to figure out how ? ..so if you can discount it.. based on your knowledge.. a person of that age had to do the same.. and then it was documented.. so get over it doood.. people arent stupid..

ghostgeek: Well, the gospels talk of a strong wind blowing and the waters being stirred up, something that seems to happen quite frequently on the Sea of Galilee due to its geology. It appears these storms can be quite dangerous for fishing boats caught in them on the lake. This makes me wonder; if so caught out would the crew draw in the oars, as you say, and sit the storm out on the water? Or would they use the oars to try and row to safety?

ghostgeek:

h0nd0: point the bow towards the wind... you can ride up and down in breaking waves.. ,. like i said a double bow boat its different .. a stern is a flat rear.. or transom.. this is where in the sailing ships a rudder was built.. but in a double bowed boat you use a rear paddle rudder.. and a flat bottom boat would use something .. like a raft would use.. these are usually square for loading horses and other goods but fisherman use a double bow`d boat to counter the nets.. (the crew) stay forward and the net is placed in center for constant weight to water displacement.. (trim) a man on the bow would us an oar to push left or pull right to keep a boats bow into the wind.. (sails if any are down)..this way the boat doesnt breech (sideways) the only thing that can capsize a flat bottom boat is a rouge wave.. they are impenetrable .. made of wood they dont sink.. unless the net sinks and drags the boat down by whales or something other than nature.. they dont capsize easy.. and that is why they still design them this way.. plus using a flat bottom boat when you go onshore you can put a log under them and roll them as far as you want.. if you off shore safest place to sit a storm out is out in the channel.. .. if anything the worst thing that happens to fisherman is the storm begins as the nets are stuck on rocks down below.. which anchors them as the sea`s rise.. its quite scary.. a boat is just a bouy then.. and its not going anywhere untill the net is freed.... like i said the documentation of the experience came to us.. through and event which intellectual fisherman witnessed.. being a fisherman myself i can not discount it.. for i have seen awesome sights myself..

ghostgeek: The Qur'an says unbelievers are going to be burning in hell, also. Do you think it is referring to readers of the Bible?

ghostgeek: Please explain.

h0nd0: yes it is. because the Qur`an is a book of poetry telling muslims to pray to the God of abraham.. and you do sound stupid .. for asking to explain it

ghostgeek: So, hOndO, all readers of the Bible are going to burn in hell. Well, that's clear enough. Thanks for spelling it out.

h0nd0: you missed the point.. as usual.. unbelievers arent of the christian persuasion.. im sure you dont know what youre talking about by subjugating the words of either book
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ghostgeek: I think you'll find that according to Muslims those of the Christian persuasion are unbelievers. Allah trumps all.

h0nd0: not true.. muslims are the same as christians. only dumb ass people think they arent.. (points at geek) muslims fought christians and lost which is why they dont like christians.. not because of the faith.. get your facts straight.. separate the christian way of life and the muslim way of thinking from the words described by the books.. which you pertain to tell the purveyors of this thread.. about unbelievers..

un·be·liev·er
ˌənbəˈlēvər/Submit
noun
someone who has no religious beliefs, or who does not follow a particular religion.

h0nd0: by the way the word you want to use is kaffir or infidel... but that is not of a religion.. back in the days of these words .. it was considered a huge insult to say any word like this ..to a man with a religion.. so watch what you say..

ghostgeek: Muslims are the same as Christians? I wouldn't give much for your chances if you stood up in a mosque and said that.

ghostgeek: As you yourself pointed out, an unbeliever, to a Muslim, is someone, like a Christian, who does not follow Islam.

h0nd0: islam follows the God .. (now listen up) of abraham.. the jewish faith.. Islam began in Arabia and was revealed to humanity by the Prophet Muhammad. (who stated in his teaching book of poetry to follow the God of abraham by which he gave the name allah) Those who follow Islam are called Muslims. Muslims believe that there is only one God. The Arabic word for God is Allah. GHOSTGEEK get your head together.. the hate you speel from your mouth about non -believers is false and un-educated.. christians didnt create the hate you speak of.. in the wars over jeruselem ..islam has no claim .. except that jews left .. as the bible said they would be.. scattered.. to the world.. but they are not infidels.. atheist are.. and followers of ramies. and shiba .. because the ONE true God of ISLAM is THE ONE TRUE GOD.. and judge the God allah is also the same God Yahweh.. the God of david.. and abraham who ordained david as king..

h0nd0: you have your followers in the wrong order.. the christian faith was determined and began as a faith years before the islamic faith had even read the book of MuHammed.. to begin being a faith.. so its critical for you to realize it might have been the land the jewish people left that brought the islamic faith into existence at all..