Biological fitness - What Is It? (Page 2)

CoIin:

What does that mean?

Geoff: I was agreeing with Aura.

Fitness:
Noun
The condition of being physically fit and healthy.
The quality of being suitable to fulfill a particular role or task.


In this case it is the second definition. Most suitable to fulfil the task of surviving long enough to breed.

CoIin: Well, in that case, the challenge is analytic and it's a logical impossibility.

Geoff: No, as I said, if there was a deity then staying on it's good side would mark the individuals out at "fitter" than those who didn't.

Geoff: But since there isn't it explains why church attendances are going down.

duncan124:
Unless it is a bad 'deity'.

Geoff: The atheists are staying in bed and breeding on Sunday mornings, rather than wasting their time having their moral compass recalibrated.

Geoff: In the history of all humanity, is there such a thing as a deity who isn't bad?

Look at the shit the Jewish/Christian/Islamic god gets up to. He's a monster. As are most of the Hindu, Greco-Roman, Norse and African gods.

duncan124:
Unless it is just a super being which has n't the power to kill outright, then there is safety in numbers.

CoIin: @ - Geoff

But deity or no deity, if "fitness" is defined in the manner you suggest, with physical characteristics being irrelevant, then the survivors are still the "fittest" by definition, whether or not they get a helping hand from You-Know-Who.

Right?

In other words, there is nothing to fitness beyond survival and multiplication rates.

Or am I missing something?

duncan124:
Clearly peaceful church going people will survive over know-it-alls, as they can gain from others knowledge.

duncan124:
We don't know who Colin.

duncan124:
Clearly unless you are talking about a plant it is fitness at the expense of others.

Geoff: In this specific field - yes. Fit purely refers to the ability to pass on one's genetic heritage.

Take the smilodon (a species of sabre toothed cat). It evolved bigger and bigger teeth, stronger muscles and skeleton to support those teeth - all to hunt heavier and heavier prey (which was evolving a similar strategy).

The smilodon's prey went extinct, but although they were the biggest, meanest cats on the planet at the time (possibly), they were not suited to survive on any other prey - it was all too fast for them to catch with their massive, heavy teeth.

Now, if you or I were to face on, it would more than likely be able to rip us apart and eat us without breaking a sweat.

But a cougar (not a desperate housewife, Felis Concolor), would probably think twice before tangling with an adult human. It certainly wouldn't try to bring down a mammoth. But it survived when the smilodon didn't because it was more fit to survive the change in environment (i.e. the extinction of it's prey - it was able to move onto different food).

CoIin: Ok, then. Case closed.

Wow! Finally a thread with a conclusion! Someone call CNN

CoIin: Thanks to all contributers. Even the ones who didn't contribute

Geoff: Well, this is a fairly open and shut issue.

One thing to bear in mind though, although defining what makes an individual "fit" is simple, working out how it makes them fit is another thing entirely. From a simple rule, applied to the complexities of the real world, you end up with something that is almost impossible to predict, and that is very very complicated to establish even after the fact.

For example, homosexuality exists in hundreds of different species, and yet from a purely evolutionary point of view would be a "losing strategy". Yet, many species that are far from endangered exhibit this trait.

CoIin: Oh no!!!

Now we're back to square one again.

This was the whole issue - Are the "fit" fit purely by definition, or is there something "about them" that makes them fit.

Aura: Most of em social animals... or if you can name me a spices that lives solitary and still has homosexuality, I will stand by my opinion that this is part of a workable social dynamic and only relevant to survival in the sense of keeping a strong group.

Edit: typo

Geoff: They are fit by definition, they have physical, mental or social traits that make them more likely to survive.

And yes, I wasn't claiming that homosexuality was a losing strategy, just using it as a case in point.

duncan124:
If MR C is chasing you around then no matter how fit you are he is makng you suffer.

An illness has taken hold of someone andno matter how strong you are the weaker ones will win with their 'new ideas' brought about by illness.

CoIin: Dammit. Looks like Draigo is a better player than me after all.

duncan124:
Its just a game. Play again when you are feelng better.

Geoff: Challenge him to a drinking version of Wordy.

Each word - the opponent has to drink a shot for each syllable.

See if you could beat him then

duncan124:
Exploit his weakness's caused by his illness??