miss gege: how arrogant would we be to think in the vastness of the universe that we are the only `populated`planet....yes i believe
LiptonCambell: Of course they exist. Such a claim is preposterous. Anything in the night sky that the observer can not identify is an UFO. That means planes, planets, asteroids, comets, meteors, swamp gas, satellites, helicopters, birds, bats, Aurora Borealis, jets, blimps, towers, and really ANYTHING in the sky that cannot be identified.
Although something tells me you're implying something incredibly unlikely.
LiptonCambell: >>>how arrogant would we be to think in the vastness of the universe that we are the only `populated`planet.
I've always hated that kind of thinking. That, because the universe is big, there is other forms of life. The Oceans are big- does that mean there are mermaids? Should we assume that there are mermaids with no proof, just because the oceans are big? Or should we actually find even the slightest evidence of mermaids first?
And I feel the same way about alien life. You are disregarding all the scientific observations of the universe because it doesn't match your preconceived conclusions.
PokerMan: Ya I have to side with lipton with how big the universe theory there just has to be aliens out there somewhere talk.
And yes I was implying aliens/ufos.
Also if the idea of aliens never existed would they still call them ufos? So the absence of the idea of aliens would make the idea of ufos non-existent?
LiptonCambell: Umm....not really. People would still see objects in the sky they are incapable of identifying...they just wouldn't associate every account as, possibly, something utterly ridiculous.
PokerMan: So do u honestly think there are no such things as aliens, because ive seen documentaries of government officials claiming there are 57 different species of humanoids aliens.
PokerMan: I guess, even though I have seen them I dont know if its true, but I have to say that there are some pretty weird looking videos and photos out there, and eye witness reports, abduction reports also. Who knows what an alien is supposed to look like if we ever saw one, if they are even real. Who knows when they finally man up haha, and finally show themselves to us if they are indeed real, they will probably look nothing like we have ever imagined them to be.
StuckInTheSixties: The best experts on this subject are those of SETI. Their position on this subject is absolutely balanced and rational. While their entire purpose is the "Search For Extraterrestrial Intelligence," they maintain that thus far, there is no rational, verifiable proof of any life whatsoever besides that which is on Earth.
The vastness and complexity strongly SUGGEST that there is a good possibility of other life, intelligent or otherwise. But they stress that it's important to make a distinction between a strong suggestion and proof. And there is no proof.
We have been able to determine that Europa, a moon orbiting Jupiter, has an icy surface atop a shell of liquid saltwater. It certainly presents an enticing possibility of a second source of life here in our own solar system. But we very likely won't know for sure until it can be visited by probes, or better yet, by humans.
One thing that bears keeping in mind is the psychology of UFOs and ETs. It's essentially the same as religion. Arguably, it IS religion. It's believing in something for which there is no rational proof. Like religion, that requires FAITH.
The "flavor" of this irrational belief makes it easy for one to think that it's not religious in nature, because rather than floods, burning bushes, 72 virgins in heaven, etc. it involves spaceflight, machines, technology. But at the core of such beliefs is the same motivation as that for religion: the overwhelming desire to have an answer for something that has no answer. And at this point in time, there is no answer.
hitsugaya252: I agree with the 3rd reply, there are many unidentifiable things which may just be our illusion. Most UFOs are not UFOs at all.
i remember a joke here: smart blonde and ufo are like same. we heard of them but never see one lol
Life on other planets? Sure.
Intelligent life on other planets? Why not.
Has earth been visited by intelligent life from other planets? Perhaps but let's look at this one.
IF we have been visited by intelligent life, they would have either traveled at the speed of light for a 100 years to reach us or figured out how to travel faster than the speed of light. Some say that intelligent life traveling at the speed of light would have to travel up to 100,000 years or more to reach us. So, just traveling at the speed of light would make these "beings" really smart. Sort of like humans compared to ants. We can't communicate with ants, not yet anyway.
Just thinking about it is interesting in itself.
LiptonCambell: Excellent Post Sixties- I agree completely
>>>Intelligent life on other planets? Why not.
I dispise such a mentality when dealing with our perception of reality. It seems mentally lazy, and there is no room for consistantcy. When discussing unknown circumstances, you shrug and say it could happen because you feel it could- which, frankly, should open the door for any vagrant who wants to impose a foolish idea- pixies, bigfoot, cthulhu, Zeus, flying spagetti monster, the planet Nibiru, a square Earth- anything can be justified if you're willing to shrug your shoulders and say "why not"
>>>or figured out how to travel faster than the speed of light.
Which, as far as we understand the universe, is physically impossible. The closer you get to the speed of light, the more dense you would be- to get to the barebones speed of light, it would require more mass than the entire universe.
I'm not saying we know everything, mind you- but certainly it seems awefully arrogant to completely disreguard our scientific conclusions because it doesn't match your expectations on how the universe oughta work. If going the speed of light or beyond the speed of light is possible, then we should be able to disprove it first before we completely undermine peoples work and our understanding of the universe.
>>>Some say that intelligent life traveling at the speed of light would have to travel up to 100,000 years or more to reach us.
Well, if they're in our Galaxy- 100,000 light years in diameter- yes, the longest journey at the speed of light would take that long. If they came from the closest star(which, far as we can tell, has no planets), it would take 4 years at, again, an impossible speed.
>>>So, just traveling at the speed of light would make these "beings" really smart.
Again, you are inventing the circumstances- its like saying "Magic is probably true- and if it is, the people who possess magic are so smart and capible at it that they hide it from everyone around it without them having a clue. So the fact that we can't find a Wizard means Wizards absolutely exist"
Squ1d_Lips: Why the f@$z would they wanna come here in the first place?? Travel trillions of light years to land in B#w&*x&$, Alabama to be confronted by a toothless yokel with a shotgun.
LiptonCambell: Not to meantion that, if life were to form on its own again, it is just as likely to be some form that is completely incompatable with our own. "Extremeophiles" we call them on Earth- life that lives in extreme conditions. After all, in our own solar system liquids have formed in combinations that would be deadly to us- Titan, one of Saturns moons, for example, has lakes of methane, with a temperture of -290 below zero. If life were to form to take advantage of this, as we know it could very well, and our two species could not be in the same room without the complete destruction of the other. Another example is Jupiter- while it doesn't necessarily have a landmass, it does have oceans of liquid hydrogen. Again, if life were to form on liquids such as these, and there would be no way they would be able to even send a vessel into our atmosphere- because it would react chemically different on our planet. Such things are never addressed in the belief of UFO's- its simply assumed that, if aliens exist, they share the same properities as we do.
And, of course, when you look at the past of Earth, it was dramatically different when life first appeared- life altered and essientially terraformed our world.
So to conclude that, when people see things in the sky they cannot identify, that they are seeing aliens, is actually concluding that life can ONLY form if their circumstances are identical to our own. And thats incredibly egotistical. If you are to believe in aliens without proof but rather statstics, then you must also accept the fact that, statsically, aliens can never be in the same room as us or survive for any length of time in our atmosphere.
Squ1d_Lips: 'So to conclude that, when people see things in the sky they cannot identify, that they are seeing aliens, is actually concluding that life can ONLY form if their circumstances are identical to our own. And thats incredibly egotistical.'
You've just summed up how every modern religion came into existance from that statement. Well done!
I didnt know thats how the SETI people thought.
I read an article about that moon of Jupiter. Its a possibility there could be life or ocean creatures since there is ice/water.
Good point made, never connected the dots with religion and ufo's.
it makes sense depending on what planet, or moon, an intelligent species comes from, its doubtingly correct that they would be able to breath our oxygen. What we breath to live, could kill an alien species that comes to Earth.
So the rarity of another intelligent species living out there in the known universe and able to breath our oxygen, and able to travel to our planet would be astronomically impossible.
StuckInTheSixties: SETI makes their position very plain.
The question is of such great importance that it's important to try to find evidence, but the evidence, thus far, hasn't been found.
davidk14: Pokerman, To say carbon based, oxygen breathing life is impossible outside of the planet we live on??? With the billions and billions of galaxies and the billions and billions of stars in each galaxy you are declaring it astronomically impossible? Are you sure? I'd take odds in Vegas that it is astronomically possible.
StuckInTheSixties: There's nothing to suggest that it's impossible, for sure.
We may very well never find that evidence. After all, space is VERY, VERY big, and most of the stuff in it is VERY, VERY far from othe stuff. And that Speed of Light barrier is always there, despite Star Trek.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned "Wormholes." They theoretically could exist, and theoretically matter could go into one, but the gravitational forces on that matter would render it down into its most fundamentally tiny components. That might mess up your whole day.
I can't locate this thought to be a reference...Am I correct to suggest that we only can see 4% of what is in the universe because it is so massive?
StuckInTheSixties: Can't say, David. (shrugs)
Can say this:
Most of what we can see is VERY far away. Far enough so that any radio evidence (whatever place in the spectrum that evidence might be), having to travel to us at the Speed of Light, would have had to originate a LONG, LONG time ago.
PokerMan: Exactly sixties, but david i didnt mean for it to sound as if it is completely impossible for their to be life out there. There is always a possibility, but there still isnt any evidence.
So should we assume there is intelligent life out there and not look or assume still and try to find it? Even though we still dont know if there is any life out there at all.
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