Lord of the Sabbath (Page 11)

Cenababy: Chayii

chay chayi: Bainyu, you're making up false and non sensible explanations, there's no difference of women and husband today from always, this whole moley beloney story doesn't make and have any sense, and you are proven false, i'm not applying anymore to this difficult nonsense

And there are many contractions in the NT, not only in genealogy

chay chayi: First its Micah 5:1 (not 5:2), and AGAIN
It says that the Messiah will come out from Davids linage, that David lived in Bethlehem, not that the Messiah will be born in Bethlehem

chay chayi: You call the true Jewish Messiah, that he will obey and follow all God's laws, and will return the entire world to obey God and follow his laws, and you call him Antichrist, i'm clarifying you, you should know the truth;

That Jesus that broke God's laws, he and his followers are the Antichrist, they don't have anything with God, they don't worship and think of God, they worship and think of Jesus, not God, and what ?? NOTHING, one thing say the word LOVE, nothing else, and what is under the word love ??? nothing but SIN, and not obeying God, THIS IS THE ANTICHRIST, and these Christians will try to fight the True Messiah, and they will come against him in and against Israel with war together with Muslims to fight the Jews and the Messiah, and they will ALL be defeated, like it says in the prophecy books

chay chayi: You call him God, he was not God, and you contradict yourself, if he's God, he's not the son of God, and God is not his father, you're saying that he's God himself, and this is total blasphemy, and paganism

Jesus has nothing with any concept of a Messiah, the only thing he did was braking God's laws

And he had nothing with all the things a Messiah does, like i said before;
"He will gather all the Jews from the entire world to Israel, and will rule Israel, and will build the 3rd temple, and all nations will recognize the truth about the God of Israel - the one true God, and the whole world will worship God, no more wars, total piece, God's glory will shine in the entire world, and all children of Israel all men and women and children will be prophets, and the dead will resurrect in his time, and will come with Moses and Elijah"

And nowhere anywhere says that the Messiah is to come one time, and do nothing (but braking laws) and then to come thousands years later, it says he will come and that's it

The whole Jesus thing is plain laughable, contrictional, and blasphemy, against God totally,

This is the plain simple truth

Cenababy: chayii, let's look at this, he was born in Bethlahem, at the time of labor they did not know maybe, they couldn't get a place so had to go out and put him in a manger, and as you know, it doesn't state every single word!COME ON.....and he is David's lineage! So if you don't want to comment don't you act as if you are the only one that knows the bible, I think we do have a right to know it too.

bainyu: Its Micah 5:2 darlin'

Chay I suggest you actually look up the verses. You are being "sassy" (love saying that about guys). Hahaha wrong word.. lol
You are being arrogant. A wise man realizes he knows nothing. You havent realized yet. I dont claim to know everything but when you say things about Jesus youcare not saying it to us you are saying it to Him.

Chay genaology in the whole Bible is shown on the mans side. Luke did talk about mary multiple times before he wrote the genaology. The writers had no problem with the records and the Jewish records on lineage were very maticulous. Joseph was not Christs biological father. His mothers was the only blood He has. Through marriage Joseph was seen as Jesus' father. So it they didnt see it as anything to say Joseph was the Son of Heli Son-in-Law is the same as son. Im not making anything up. Why dont you look up Jewish customs and traditions concerning son in laws. It is NOT CONTRADICTING. The man would be in the place of the women since women were not seen mentioned.

bainyu: I do not contradict myself. The trinity is God the Father, God the Son ,and God the Holy spirit. That is GOD. So yes Jesus was God in the FLESH. The trinity is One in omnipresence, onipotience and omniscience. I will call Jesus God because He Himself was accused of blasphemy by the Jews. Why? Because He made the claim that He was equal to God by saying He was God's son.

So either He was lying or telling the truth. He stated many times. He was worshipped many times. He recieved the worship. He accepted the worship. He did not call it blasphemy because it was not. Peter when someone was trying to worship him said " I am just a man" why wasnt Jesus' response the same? Because He WAS NOT "JUST A MAN"

He was the alpha the omega, the beginning the end, the First and the Last. He was and is the "I AM"

chay chayi: No, its Micah 5:1, the English translation is mistaken, in the English translation 5:1 belongs to 4:14, its part of chapter 4, what you have in the English translation 5:1 has nothing to do with chapter 5, its correctly in the original Hebrew verse, whats 5:2 in the English "translation", is 5:1 correctly in the "original" Hebrew verse

A son in law was never and is not a descendant of a linage, and the Messiah has to be from the fathers linage from David

chay chayi: With your word "trinity" you did not answer anything, if he's God in the flesh, so he's "part" of God, not a "son" of God

And the whole trinity is paganism, no such thing, God is pure omnipresence, no such thing that God is divided, its a terrible blasphemy, Jesus was a plain man that made himself as God, like there were many people that did so in other ways

The whole salvation thing is evil and false, what is God's laws ??? eating iron ??? poison ??? not eating at all ??? to kill yourself ??? to sacrifice yourself ???? (no !!! only the pagans sacrificed their children, what God said its sin to sacrifice humans to him) God's laws are true life, the right true way, not murdering, not stealing etc, all these are a must, and other laws of worshiping God, to be connected to God, they are pure life !!!!!, salvation is made that if you did sin, God will forgive you, but not that there is no laws, and now ZERO, nothing, no laws

All the prophecy books are talking about salvation, including the Torah, its one thing, that if you take to your heart that you will not continue to sin, then you're forgiven, no such thing of God coming in flesh, and being killed for you, its even not sensible at all, God should die ??? and what does have to do of "God" getting "murdered" of breaking laws, and do what you want, and be "saved", saved from what ??? from obeying God ??? its totally blasphemy, paganism, lies, that's why he was killed

CoIin: @ - "So either He [Jesus] was lying or telling the truth" - Bainyu

The problem with a statement like this -- and I see it often -- is that it tends to conflate two dichotomies into one. Here they are:-

1. The sincerity vs insincerity dichotomy

1a. Bill claims "It's raining" sincerely believing this to be the case. (i.e. Bill is not lying)
1b. Bill claims "It's raining" not believing this to be the case (i.e. Bill is lying)

Well, is it REALLY raining? Who knows?


2. The true vs untrue dichotomy

2a. Mary claims (in all sincerity) George Washington was the first U.S. president
2b. Sally claims (in all sincerity) Thomas Jefferson was the first U.S. president

What Mary says is true. What Sally says is untrue. Neither of them is lying.


So, getting back to Jesus, here are the options Bainyu misleadingly offers us:-

(i) Jesus sincerely believed the things he said, and the things he said were true
(ii) Jesus was lying

I say "misleading" because Bainyu's two options do not exhaust the possibilities. There is, of course, a third option:-

(iii) Jesus sincerely believed the things he said, but he was just plain wrong

bainyu: SON OF GOD IS A TITLE. Jesus is the "Son"

Jesus' title is SON OF GOD, it is also SON OF MAN. "Son of God " is not unheard of. There are sevants of God who were sons of God.. of course the difference is, Jesus is the the "only begotten." The term SON OF MAN is set apart. No one is referred to as the Son of Man. Jesus called himself that.

The title "Son of Man" is from the Book of the Prophet Daniel in the Old Testament. The following is the text which describes a vision which the prophet had at night: "I saw visions in the night, and behold, with the clouds of heaven there came one like a Son of Man, and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him. And to him was given dominion and glory and kingdom, that all peoples, nations, and languages should serve him; his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom is one that shall not be destroyed" (Dan 7:13-14).

And NO. Either Jesus was crazy or what He was saying is true. Either He was having delusions of grandeur or what He was saying is true.

It isnt blasphemy. The Bible tells us many places where Jesus claimed Lordship. When Jesus was about to get stoned. So either whe was being blashemous or He was telling the truth. He did not deny what He said. He did not take it back. He did not say "oh guys you misinterperated me. Im not like God, nor do I equal myself to God" No He claimed things and stood by them.

John 10:30-33

"I and the Father are one." 31The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." (John 10:30-33)

Of course not. God words are to be followed not dismissed. I do not dismiss Gods commands. I do not dismiss God's word. I see that Jesus came and made it so that I could through HIM be able to renew my spirit and mind through HIS WORD. Through HIM. God is never dismissed, neither is His word. God made it so that Jesus would be glorified. God is the planner, the overseer. GOD SAYS you cannot get to me without my son. We could not get to God without Christ. It is impossible.

Do you sacrifice aniamals for sins chay? Do you really think the God of the universe. The Holy, Pure, without blemish FATHER OF THE UNIVERSE would look upon us in our filth? Does it seem logical for a pure God to look at uncleanliness? Does THAT makes sense? Where are the moses' and joshuas of the generation? Where are these people that interceed for people on Gods behalf? Where is Gods voice??

OR has Jesus fufilled the very thing that the Jews had been and still are waiting.

Its like the unbelieving Jews have been in their Jail cells and are looking out through the small hole in the wall that shows the outside awaiting the day where they will be able to walk out free... except the door of their cells has been open for years. They can walk out into freedom if only they would have fauth enough to turn around..

The messiah was and is Jesus Christ

chay chayi: The Sabbath is coming, i'll clarify it after Sabbath, i'll be back in about 30 hours
The "only" thing what matters is the truth

God should bless the world with the only one truth

Laura _: Hebrews 4 speaks of God's rest and the people who refused to come into it.

Let us therefore diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. Hebrews 4:11

The whole chapter 4 should be read...it's not long.

Verse 7 says "Today ,if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts."

bainyu: Genesis 2:3

2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Exodus 20:11

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Exodus 31:12–13

12 Then the Lord said to Moses, 13 “Say to the Israelites, ‘You must observe my Sabbaths. This will be a sign between me and you for the generations to come, so you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.


1. We are supposed to rest after 6 days of work.
2. We are supposed to keep that day Holy and sanctified.
3. We told to "observe" remember it.

Deuteronomy 5:15

You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the Lord your God brought you out thence with a mighty hand and an outstreched arm; therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day.

The point of Keeping the sabbath is to look back at our work as God did creation and to also see the freedom we were given.

We are supposed to set a day for God to remember our deliverer. We are supposed to keep that day Holy in respect to God.

chay chayi: No such thing as "fulfilling" God's words, there's one thing, "obeying" God's words

Laura _: Colossians 2:14-17 It is commonly assumed that the "handwriting of ordinances " is the Old Testament law. The term handwriting is from the Greek cheirgraphon, which refers to a legal document or bond, and is used of a "record book of sins" in Jewish apocalyptic literature.

The King James Version's " handwriting of ordinances " is an unfortunate translation. Modern English versions are better, and generally do not give the impression that Paul is speaking of the Old Testament law.

The new American Bible= " having forgiven us all our transgressions; obliterating the bond against us, with it's legal claims, which was opposed to us, He also removed it from our midst, nailing it to the cross.

Laura _: Jesus asks in Mathew 15:3 " Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?"

' These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips.

But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me,

Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. Mathew 15:8-9.

This is how Jesus feels about Christians ignoring God's Sabbaths and following man's Sunday tradition.

Laura _: Do you know why the Kingdom of Israel was invaded By the Assyria. conquered, removed from their land as slaves 721-718 B.C.?

Do you know why the Kingdom of Judah was later taken captive, and scattered over the world? Both houses of Israel were sent into national punishment and banishment from the Holy Land because they broke God's Sabbath!

https://www.thetrumpet.com/literature/42/which-day-is-the-christian-sabbath

chay chayi: This is a holy song and praise of Sabbath


And this is the translation of the Hebrew words

God, i yearn the sweetness of Sabbath, that it comes true and it unites in your chosen nation. Attract the sweetness of your worship to the nation that seeks your grace. give them your holiness of Sabbath that unites in your words of the Torah. Open to them the sweetness and grace, to open all the doors of your grace

The one (God) that was ever and is and will ever be, guard those who keep and yearn your holy Sabbath. Like a deer that yarns by the bed of the river, their soul yearns to receive the sweet holiness of Sabbath that is united in your holy name. Save those who linger to separate themselves from Sabbath, Your presence shouldn't be enclosed from them all the 6 days of the week, that receives the blessings and holiness of Sabbath, and purify their heart they should worship you truly and with belief in you

And Your mercy should dwell on your holy nation, to irrigate those who thirst your grace, from the river of grace that dwells from among your delight existence. And to adorn Israel with your precious, that they precious you (God) in the day of Sabbath, through the holiness of Sabbath, And to attain them all the 6 days of the week with the heritage of Jacob your chosen one

Sabbath is the sweetness of the spirit, the 7th day of the week is the delight and pleasure of the ghost and the delight and pleasure of the soul, to delight and pleasure in your love and worship. The holy Sabbath, my soul is sick for your love, Holy Sabbath, the souls of Israel shelter in the shadow of your wings, And they fill their soul with your existence

Or here's another translation
http://www.scribd.com/doc/56472170/Yah-Echsof-Words

Zanjan: Jews didn't have a problem with the Sabbath - it was the whole Covenant they messed up on. The Christians did the same thing but it's obvious in different ways since their religion wasn't confined to a single nation or culture.

The Mosiac Covenant is a contract between God and the followers of Moses that they agree to obey ALL of God's Commandments in return for His protection and blessings. If they did that, God would ensure they won all their battles. If they didn't, they'd loose their battles.

The Sabbath and blood sacrifice as well as circumcision were signs a believer made with God to establish his commitment to the Covenant.

Likewise was the baptism, Sabbath, and breaking of bread with drinking wine in a communal supper signs are, for the Christians, the signs of one's commitment to the Covenant. Again, this included obedience to ALL commandments given by Christ.

There are times God renews His Covenant with Man - according to Jews, it happens when God sends a new Messenger of the Covenant. The signs of one's commitment may change, but its still a powerful sign of some kind that all can recognize as an affirmation of faith.

Islam brings the people back to the same original Covenant between God and man through all of the Messengers of God with the understanding there is no entrance to paradise without obedience to all the commands of God through the specific Prophet.

There is a strong clarification on the difference between God's Promises and Covenants. As for these signs of commitment, the Prophet of each of these religions of God is the Lord of its own Sabbath. There's a slight adjustment on the perspective of Sabbath, which is for Muslims a day of special community prayers on Friday but one is also commanded to pray every day of the week, according to law.

robertbatchelor: The SABBATH is created into this earth and will be still on Saturday in the new earth.
SABBATH is eternal. The world has SUNDAY all wrong .
SABBATH is sign between me and my people forever. This cannot change .

robertbatchelor: Trinity is cobblers. There is GOD the FATHER sure.
Then there is the son of GOD. Then There is the holy Spirit. But not 3 god's. Not three in one either.
WITH in JOHN 1 means CONTRACTED too. Like ADAM was contracted to EVE being OINE FLESH.
Let us make man in our IMAGE. Man was not man two ADAMS .
But contracted as a FAMILY .
Sorry if you refuse then man was not made in the image of GOD which is a FAMILY.
There is no way out of this. !!!

robertbatchelor: Why has this subject STALLED ?
Hebrews 4 is on this subject.
There were no JEWS when MOSES lead Israel out of EGYPT keeping the SABBATH before getting the 10C so whats going on here? The SABBATH was before there was one JEW.

Zanjan: Good point. What's going on is the Sabbath Day keeps changing -> Saturday, Friday, Sunday.

As long as one hits it on one of those days, how would there be a problem?