Jesus changes many things, Part I (Page 4)

chay chayi: No, i read Mark, and you brought a verse from Matthew, in Mark is only one story

chay chayi: And "spitting" is an unclean act to perform demonic magic, miracles from God is not made by spiting, spiting is known in the unclean performance of demonic magic

bainyu: ... I was giving you context for the verses that you are trying to use to make your invalid point.

I know you didnt even read the chapter...

I put good chunks of the chapter for you to read so you could understand it. I gave you MATTHEW because Jesus is alluding to matthew AND the verses before it.

There are around 6 different stories in mark 8.

MARK 8
(After Jesus feeds 4000)

9 About four thousand were present. After he had sent them away, 10 he got into the boat with his disciples and went to the region of Dalmanutha.

-fed 4000 and sent them away
-GOT INTO BOAT AND WENT TO DALMANUTHA

Now this is taking place in DALMANUTHA whoch is a "different region"

11 The Pharisees came and began to question Jesus. To test him, they asked him for a sign from heaven. 12 He sighed deeply and said, “Why does this generation ask for a sign? Truly I tell you, no sign will be given to it.” 13 Then he left them, got back into the boat and crossed to the other side.

—NOW THEY AGAIN WENT ON THE BOAT TO TRAVELTOWARD A DIFFERENT DESTINATION.. TIME IS PASSING AGAIN

NEXT

14 The disciples had forgotten to bring bread, except for one loaf they had with them in the boat. 15 “Be careful,” Jesus warned them....
16 They discussed this with one another and said, “It is because we have no bread.”

17 Aware of their discussion,

Jesus asked them: “Why are you talking about having no bread? Do you still not see or understand? Are your hearts hardened? 18 Do you have eyes but fail to see, and ears but fail to hear? **And don’t you remember?**

19 When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many basketfuls of pieces did you pick up?”

“Twelve,” they replied.

20 “And when I broke the seven loaves for the four thousand, how many basketfuls of pieces did you pick up?”

They answered, “Seven.”

21 He said to them, “Do you still not understand?”

-They forgot bread and only had 1 loaf
-they again are complaining and worried about not having food(which clearly is not the first time its happened)
-so Jesus reminds them of the miracles they have witnessed

He asks them

Specifically about two different times. The first was when Jesus has 5 loafs for 5000 and they anwered Him about that specific time and then the second was when they had 7 loafs for 4000

They answered Jesus for each time. They knew what Jesus was talking about. This is all in context. When Jesus says

And don’t you remember? 19 When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand, how many basketfuls of pieces did you pick up?”

THEN SAYS

20 “And when I broke the seven loaves for the four thousand, how many basketfuls of pieces did you pick up?”

ITS OBVIOUS JESUS IS TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT TIMES. Cmon... It really isnt hard to understand.....

bainyu: I know what you meant by unclean and I am using an example of God doing things the way people would consider to be unclean. Just like jesus mixes spit and mud over a blinds eyes... God created us from dirt. And The account is right after Jesus explains what is TRULY unclean

chay chayi: Earth is not unclean, Adam was not created from dust, he was created from earth, spiting is a disgusting unholy thing, and its used to perform demonic unholy magic, everything Jesus did was by unholy demonic power, like the Egyptians did against Moses

bainyu: That makes no sense. The person your Talmud is talking about.. your awaited messiah has already come.. when the Bible talks about the Son of Man in Daniel who is that talking about? Its a prophechy about one who is like The Son of Man and will rule over everything. Who do you say that is? I Mean there are so many prophecies on a person and that person is no ordinary man... these are old testament prophecy... hh

The Israelites as is shown in the Bible.. are always going against God.. it has always been a non stop struggle. They never listened to God.. they were killed off for their disobedience. They worshipped idols and even when God did for them and delivered them they had a severe case of amnesia. History repeats itself. God does have people.. He always does. There are Israeli believers. Its interesting that Jesus speaks exactly of what you are saying.

If paul did not experience Jesus physically He probably would never have believed because it was ingrained in His mind that Christians are evil and what they believe was aswell. For a Jew to grow up with strong stuck views, its God who has to show it.. noone can say anything to prove it.. its about the heart and whether its willing to recieve Jesus and His words.

Someone can be told all of the facts but that means nothing if they dont want to recieve it.

chay chayi: The prophecy books says clear, that the Messiah will come BY THE END OF THE DAYS, and we are not STILL awaiting the Messiah, we are awaiting him now by the end of the days, Jesus was in the middle age of the days,

Jesus was not accepted when he was alive, he only had a few plain uneducated people, a few people that were not socialized in the Jewish community, because they saw Jesus and simply saw and felt and knew what he is, the whole population of Christians came from the book peter wrote, its Peter that founded and wrote it, you can write what ever you want to build a structure of knowledge and belief, but its not what Jesus was in fact

The Israelites were NOT always against God, and even when yes, it was according to their high standard what God commanded them because they were close and chosen to God, but non Jews were ALWAYS against God, worshiping all kinds of idols and doing all incest and adultery, and those Jews and times that were sinning was from what they saw and learned from the non Jews, so when the Jews were sinning and getting punished was because they are chosen to the truth and close to God that's why they were punished, like a son of a king that gets punished for not behaving like a prince, and ALWAYS were Jews that DID obey God in ALL generations, and only the obeying Jews managed to exist

bainyu: You didnt tell me who you think the book of daniel is referring to when it says Son of Man who will rule over everything.

The Bible is a Jewish book. It is about Gods chosen people so yes we are talking about the Israeli people throughout the generations. Other people did not have relationships with God unless they somehow got with Israel. When anyone reads the Bible they are looking at Jewish History. Even the New Testament is about Jewish people.

Yes God always had someone to Lead who was obedient. In every generation God chose one. We are not comparing Jews to gentiles. And God has an everlasting covenant so no..the Jewish race will not be wiped off the earth. The covenant is forever. Yes there were Jews who obeyed but there were many more who did not and it was repetative. God was always for them.. ALWAYS but they were not always for God.

Paul actually wrote a good portion of the New Testament. Paul was educated and was a devout follower of Jewish Law. He persecuted Christians because He really believed what they were doing was wrong. Paul Had an encounter with Jesus and saw Christ. You are speaking as if Peter was the only one who witnessed Jesus... Jesus did have Israeli followers. They witnessed what Jesus did. Jesus fed a group of 4000 and 5000 with a few bread and fish.. He turned water into wine, healed people and casted demons out. By the way.. no demon casts out another demon. A kingdom divided against itself will fall. There were ALWAYS witnesses. When paul saw Jesus there were people with Him who heard the words paul heard but could not see what he saw. After Jesus died and rose again he appeared to hundereds of believers. And believers on the day of pentecost spoke tongues they did not understand to foreigners in their own language. These were massive amounts of people. Peter was sent for the Jews and Paul the gentiles. There first churches planted God was showing miracles and healing and the Holy Spirit was working. These are not made up stories...

The New Testament says that Jesus will come back too. Judaism says it will be the first time but the Bible is clear when it says it will be the second

chay chayi: The Messiah Daniel refers to is the Messiah that will come BY THE END OF THE DAYS in our time soon, and Daniel says a unclear date, but its far far further than the time Jesus lived, and you did not respond to what i pointed out, that Jesus was not in the end of the days, he was in the middle age

Why did not ANY Jewish totally educated Jew not accept Jesus ?? the Rabbis were those who studied God's words day and night and lived with God's spirit and presence, Rabbis obeyed God, and those Jews who sinned and worshiped idols and killed 2 prophets were plain civil people not Rabbis, Rabbis were students of prophets before them, Peter and Paul were not acknowledged and educated in the core truth of Judaism and God's words and spirit, Jesus was not accepted by those who were totally educated and with God's spirit through all generations from Moses till them, what the NT spews hate and claims against the Rabbis is evil lies, the Rabbis were based on the truth they studied from Moses through all prophets till their times, they were innocent righteous people, when the NT replies that "you killed prophets" is a evil lie, killing the prophets was by civil sinned people in the time of the first temple, not by Rabbis that obeyed God

I clarified that Jesus did everything he did by demons, casting out demons is done by the command of the king of the demons, when someone that pleases the king of the demons by sin he commands other demons to fulfill the sinners wish, demons are under control by the king of the demons, its a whole knowledge in the demons thing

And again
The prophecy books (OT in the bible) says clear, that the Messiah will come by the end of the days, Jesus was not in the end of the days, he was in the middle age, and Daniels date is far further than Jesus's time

chay chayi: Why should the Jews and the Rabbis not accept the Messiah, they are waiting for ?? its all silly belonies, he was not a Messiah

Cenababy: Chayii, what the hell are you talking about firstly? Secondly, there were many many jews who believed and worshipped Jesus.....Good grief, you best re read the dang bible, GENESIS even talks about JESUS.....it is all through the bible, you are too blind to see it, and believe too much in what "you have been TOLD what to believe", this is the problem with JeWS....may God help you all....I think there will be many many tears in the end times when The Messiah "JESUS" returns for those who did not believe he was who he was and is! Jesus comes TWo times NOT JUST IN END TIMES! gOOD grief, why do you think he came way back when, TO GIVE US ALL A SECOND CHANCE, and AGAIN STUPID PEOPLE he was right in front of their own eyes, and they STILL refused to believe? WHY? I will tell you straight out...BECAUSE HE KNEW They wOULD NOT, SO HE BLINDED Them! STUPID DANG CAPS LOCK.....ENOUGH...BELIEBE WHAT YOU WANT, BUT STOP CORRECTING CHRISTIANS WHEN THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY TELLING THE TRUTH "FROM THE ACTUAL BIBLE"! AND BTW DANIEL IS NOT A MESSIAH

Cenababy: BTW TOO, I doubt seriously Peter had any more higher ground than PAUL...If you will read, you just might clearly see that...and STOP thinking that all christians believe the way the Catholics taught...this is the trouble with outsiders, they believe lies too much!

chay chayi: Genesis does not talk about Jesus, its the Christians interpretations in Genesis
The problem is the Christians that are deceived by a man Jesus, a sinned Jew

Those Jews that believe that Jesus is the Messiah are not religious Jews, they don't know the core of the truth and Judaism, and they are even less than a minority, and even them, they only believe that he's the Messiah, not God

The prophecy books say that the Messiah will come, and it will be in the end of the days, they don't say that he will come in the middle age and come back a second time

chay chayi: Who said that Daniel is the Messiah ?? he was a man that God's angels revealed themselves to him and spoke to him, and they told him when the end of the days will be, when the Messiah will come

Cenababy: shall I put the verses here about JESUS in Genesis:????? reallly Chayii....
Jesus NEVER sinned, EVER! period, the End!

chay chayi: There's no verses in Genesis about Jesus, i am who i am is God, not Jesus

chay chayi: Why did Jesus curse a tree ??? and for what reason ??

Mark 11/12
On the following day, when they came from Bethany, he was hungry. 13 And seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see if he could find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. 14 And he said to it, "May no one ever eat fruit from you again." And his disciples heard it.

Why did he curse a tree ??? a tree is not a living thing and has no choice, its nature, and it was not the season for figs to grow, so why did he curse it ???

Cenababy: I am not speaking about I AM verse...I am talking about another entirely...I will post later to let you study it for yourself!

Cenababy: I will have to look into the fig situation! I'll get back to you!

Cenababy: chayii, here is part of your answer: Jesus told the Parable of the Fig Tree—Luke 13:6-9—immediately after reminding His listeners of a tower over the pool of Siloam (John 9:7) which unexpectedly fell and killed eighteen people. The moral of that story is found in Luke 13:3: “Unless you repent, you will likewise perish.” To reiterate this moral, Jesus tells the story of the fig tree, the vineyard owner, and the gardener who took care of the vineyard.

The three entities in the story all have clear symbolic significance. The vineyard owner represents God, the one who rightly expects to see fruit on His tree and who justly decides to destroy it when He finds none. The gardener, or vineyard keeper who cares for the trees, watering and fertilizing them to bring them to their peak of fruitfulness, represents Jesus, who feeds His people and gives them living water. The tree itself has two symbolic meanings: the nation of Israel and the individual.

As the story unfolds, we see the vineyard owner expressing his disappointment at the fruitless tree. He has looked for fruit for three years from this tree, but has found none. The three-year period is significant because for three years John the Baptist and Jesus had been preaching the message of repentance throughout Israel. But the fruits of repentance were not forthcoming. John the Baptist warned the people about the Messiah coming and told them to bring forth fruits fit for repentance because the ax was already laid at the root of the tree (Luke 3:8-9). But the Jews were offended by the idea they needed to repent, and they rejected their Messiah because He demanded repentance from them. After all, they had the revelation of God, the prophets, the Scriptures, the covenants, and the adoption (Romans 9:4-5). They had it all, but they were already apostate. They had departed from the true faith and the true and living God and created a system of works-righteousness that was an abomination to God. He, as the vineyard owner, was perfectly justified in tearing down the tree that had no fruit. The Lord’s ax was already poised over the root of the tree, and it was ready to fall.

However, we see the gardener pleading here for a little more time. There were a few months before the crucifixion, and more miracles to come, especially the incredible miracle of the raising of Lazarus from the dead, which would astound many and perhaps cause the Jews to repent. As it turned out, Israel as a nation still did not believe, but individuals certainly did (John 12:10-11). The compassionate gardener intercedes for more time to water and fertilize the fruitless tree, and the gracious Lord of the vineyard responds in patience.

Cenababy: CHayii SECOND PARt of ansWER: The lesson for the individual is that borrowed time is not permanent. God's patience has a limit. In the parable, the vineyard owner grants another year of life to the tree. In the same way, God in His mercy grants us another day, another hour, another breath. Christ stands at the door of each man’s heart knocking and seeking to gain entrance and requiring repentance from sin. But if there is no fruit, no repentance, His patience will come to an end, and the fruitless, unrepentant individual will be cut down. We all live on borrowed time; judgment is near. That is why the prophet Isaiah wrote, "Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts. Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him, and to our God, for he will freely pardon" (Isaiah 55:6-7).

chay chayi: All what you said has nothing to do with a fig tree that has no figs because its not the season for growing figs

Repentance is only to God, not to a man Jesus, its blasphemy and Pagan, the only one to worship is the one true God, anyone worshiping Jesus and any man is condemned to hell and suffering and to be lost for ever

A Messiah is not God, trinity is Pagan and blasphemy, Jesus was a blasphemer, and he never did any miracles, he did magic like the Egyptians did against Moses to deny God, the bible was censured many times and picked verses and doctrines from varies doctrines, that had many evil acts and thoughts from Jesus, besides that what is written is only some good looking teachings (even those are blasphemies and with none holy spirit) what Jesus really was, his image from his soul (a pic, a image, talks more than everything, and its the truth and accurate truth) his looking image was lusty and sinful, his soul was full of incest and adultery, that's why he is only on about sin, and only talking to sinned people, because he was full of it

bainyu: Daniel is talking about "The Son of Man" the title is self explanitory. It is a person that IS a Son of Man. Now this "Son of Man" character will be

9 “As I looked,

thrones were placed,
and the Ancient of Days took his seat;
his clothing was white as snow,
and the hair of his head like pure wool;
his throne was fiery flames;
its wheels were burning fire.
10 A stream of fire issued
and came out from before him;
a thousand thousands served him,
and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him;
the court sat in judgment,
and the books were opened.

This who chapter is talking about one character, one person. In detail. And yes it is the end of ages.. we agree on that. That is not being argued.
The messiah will come back.. We are awiting His return. In that time if you read the last verse you can see it talking about the court, Judgement and the books being open. The book of life will be that book that has the names written. This is talking about JUDGEMENT DAY. When we are all dead to our flesh. When everything is said and done. So you are wrong. It is clear about the time and what will happen. It is clear that it is judgement day. And we know judgement day is after we have all died.

Next

13 “I saw in the night visions,

and behold, with the clouds of heaven
there came one like a son of man,
and he came to the Ancient of Days
and was presented before him.
14 And to him was given dominion
and glory and a kingdom,
that all peoples, nations, and languages
should serve him;
his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away,
and his kingdom one
that shall not be destroyed.

Okay so this Son of Man will be given all dominion and Glory(why?) Then all people will serve Him. He has his Kingdom that is everlasting... we have established that this is in the end of the World that "The Son of Man" will take His throne. So it is clear this is not God the Father who is the "Son of Man"

You keep saying its talking about the messiah who will come in the end of days and I agree the difference is the Messiah came and that same Man named Jesus that lived around 2000 years ago is the Same one coming back and He will be the one who everyone worships and He will be the one given all dominion forever. This is not some verse with no context or random guess. That vision was given to daniel about the end of the days. The Bible does not change its meaning the messiah IS coming back. We agree. Jesus claimed the title in daniels vision and prophecy. Jesus called Himself the Son of Man many times but you are totally missing the significance of it. Jesus claimed that title and Jesus knew what that title meant and did it Deliberately.

bainyu: The problem with the Pharisees is that Jesus was Sent from God. So now God has not gone against His word in sending Jesus. God was fufilling the promise that Israel had been awaiting but they were so consumed in the ritual and law of it that they could not recieve the prophesied treasure and truth. The truth of it is that the pharisees agreed with everything Jesus taught and said it many times. They tried to catch him slipping up or trick Him in questions they assumed He would fail. But Jesus was teaching in the synagouge when He was a young boy Jesus knew every Bit of the law.

The pharisees were angry with Jesus. Jesus' message was resonating and touching people. The pharisees were concerned most about the people who recieved Jesus' message and the wanted to end that. Which is eventually why Jesus died.

“Teacher, we know that You are true, and teach the way of God in truth; nor do You care about anyone, for You do not regard the person of men. “Tell us, therefore, what do You think? Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, “Why do you test Me, you hypocrites? (Matt 22:15-18)

Not all pharisees disbelieved.

John 3:1-2: “There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

John 12:42: “Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue”

Acts 18:8: “Then Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his household. And many of the Corinthians, hearing, believed and were baptized.”

And paul was not some uneducated and lost man
He knew what He was saying and what Jesus showed Him was true.

Gal 1:14: “And I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries in my own nation, being more exceedingly zealous for the traditions of my fathers.”

Acts 23:6 “But when Paul perceived that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, “Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee” I lived a Pharisee” (Acts 26:5).

bainyu: And I have watched messianic jews and rabbis on youtube. Believers of Jesus who actually experience the Holy Spirit. One of the Videos I watched was about one rabbi whos student was around his same age they were older and He really wanted Jesus to reveal Himself. For Christ to show him visions and dream and that exactly what they had all be praying for him. People who know who Jesus are and experience Christ through visions and dreams which is what the Bible says will happen in the last days.. they evangelize and there are Jews who open their heart up to Jesus and the Spirit of God is not a respector of persons. God does not see a rabbi better than anyone else. A child of God is a child of God. God honors those who humble themselves. Dont be stuck in tradition. If you ever read the Bible and gave your Heart to Jesus you would never be the same. And you would hunger and thirst after the Lord. No law can fufill you.. Christ is the only one.