Atheism "A Belief System"

Cenababy: Atheism is a Belief System: Atheism, by definition, is the rejection of belief in the existence of God. It is a belief system; the belief that God does not exist. Some atheists will argue that atheism is not a” belief system”, but rather it is a “lack of belief” in God. But even so, it is still a belief. It is not a rejection of belief; it is a rejection of belief in God. It is still a belief no matter how you twist the words around (semantics). For example, a lack of belief (for an atheist) is usually determined by the lack of scientific evidence of God’s existence. This in itself is a belief and not a lack of belief; the atheist is basing their decision on science. Science is a study of process. It uses tests and observations to determine something as true or false. In other words, atheists believe in science as their method for determining whether or not God exists. Their “lack of belief” is based on their “belief” in science – it all comes back to a belief system of some kind. Atheism is a belief; it is the belief to refuse to believe in God (atheism is not a lack of belief; it is a lack of desire in wanting to believe).

Furthermore, the word theism derives from the Greek word theos which means god. The word atheism derives from the Greek word atheos which means no god, without god. Therefore, if the definition of theism is ‘to believe in god’, then the definition of atheism should be ‘to believe in no god’ – not, ‘to reject the belief in god’ (it is not a rejection of belief; it is a rejection of belief in God). So whether you are a theist or an atheist, you are believing in something (to believe in god, or to believe there is no god). Unfortunately, atheists don’t see it this way.

orkanen: Do you believe in Thor?

CoIin: "Unfortunately, atheists don’t see it this way."

Well, I can't speak for these other godless sinners, but I, for one, do see it that way. I believe there is no god. I also believe there is no Santa Claus either. I believe I'm not a woman. I believe today is not Saturday. And lots of other things. As do you.

I agree these are all beliefs. Now, what's the problem again?

orkanen: I beg to differ, Colin. I don't spend time not believing in the Loch Ness monster, nor do I spend time contemplating on its relationship to Godzilla. As such, I disagree to it being a belief.

CoIin: Hi Ork,

Well, it depends what we take "belief" to mean, I suppose. I take a belief to be any proposition to which a person would (sincerely) assent, e.g.

"Paris is the capital of France."
"London is not the capital of Norway."
"The cat is on the mat."
"The cat is not on the mat."
"God exists."
"God doesn't exist."

These are all propositions to which I would either assent or dissent. Some will remain fixed; others will vary with circumstances, such as the current position of said pussy. . Those to which I assent are my beliefs.

Of course, there will be many propositions to which I neither assent nor dissent, such as those involving people or places I've never heard of.

What do you take a belief to be?

orkanen: I take belief to be an active conviction, concerning the target of that belief.

orkanen: In short, things I don't consider either way, isn't a belief.

CoIin: "In short, things I don't consider either way, isn't a belief."

On this we can agree. We have no beliefs on matters we've never considered.

But you HAVE considered the question of God's existence, haven't you?

It seems you're saying you only have positive beliefs. E.g. "The cat is NOT on the mat" could not be one of your beliefs. Is this right?

orkanen: I didn't say "never considered", I said "don't consider". I spend no time on whether or not Moses shaved every morning, because I don't care either way. Maybe he existed, maybe he didn't. If he did, well okay, so he did. If he is just an invented story, no skin off of my back. I don't spend a single moment contemplating either way. Yes, I believed in the Christian god, years back. Since, this belief has withered away. I have moved from positive assertion to "I don't know, and I don't spend a second contemplating on it until new information on the matter arrives.". As such, as I see it, it's an absence of belief. Compare it to Santa, an old, fat man, with flying reindeer, I believe him to not exist.

CoIin: Ok, but you said of Mr Claus at the very end of your post : "I believe him to not exist".

Well, that's a belief, isn't it?

orkanen: Yes, it is. Did I say otherwise?

CoIin: Ok. Then "I believe God not to exist" is a belief too, isn't it?

orkanen: Agreed.

CoIin: Cool. We could get into some heavy duty philosophy of language here.

You'll spend the first 10 years of the course examining the proposition : "The present king of France is bald."

Have I got you hooked yet?

And is he bald or not?

orkanen: We're on each our definition now, it seems. I expect you to have heard about Cthulhu, or at least the name. Do you believe Cthulhu to exist, do you believe Cthulhu to not exist, or are there more options than those two?

CoIin: Um, never heard of him/her

orkanen: And I thought you were a man of learning.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cthulhu

CoIin:

Well, on the grounds that I've never heard of him/her/it, I'd have to say I have no beliefs about his/her/its existence.

orkanen: Perhaps I should have used the Midgard serpent instead. You know, the snake that's so big, it's wound all around the edge of the earth, biting its tail? No? How about Thor, then?

CoIin: Oh, I've heard of Thor.

My belief is he doesn't exist. Was that the question?

CoIin: Are you allowed to use the word midgard these days?

orkanen: I didn't know there was a prohibition on that name. Is there?

My initial point was to try and be true to the topic, something I intended to lead up to from my first question, unless I let myself be continuously distracted. My non belief in Santa, or Cthulhu, or Thor for that matter, may be beliefs, but they are not belief systems, because I don't spend energy on either of them. The same can be said for a god, firmly or loosely attached to any monotheistic religion. I don't know whether or not one exists, nor do I spend time contemplating on the matter, so it's not a belief in said god. And certainly not within a belief system.

CoIin: I think we agree.

If I'm asked : "Do you believe the Christian god exists?" I respond "no". It is my belief that he doesn't exist.

If I'm asked : "Do you believe Jesus is the son of God" I respond that, inasmuch as I don't believe God exists, the question is inapplicable to me. The question presupposes the existence of God. I make no such presupposition.

See also "Do you still beat your wife up regularly, Ork?"

orkanen: Who snitched?

orkanen: I did a web search on "belief", but came up fairly empty handed, comparing to the accuracy of said definition. Mine may not be the intended final definition of the word, pertaining to that sense of the word's usage, so until I find a better definition, I'll stick to what I have.

CoIin: Try this one:

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/belief/