Baha'u'llah was NOT a Prophet of Allah (God). The Bahi Faith is a deviant sect. (Page 3)

Zanjan: "Again, talking out of the air"

Solid marble, shrines, buildings, gardens,palisades with stairs and terraces and fountains aren't air. All you have is a prophecy about a Mountain that had absolutely nothing on it throughout all of history except for Elijah's tiny cave - a natural grotto one can't even see from a distance!

A prophecy is *air* until it's fulfilled on earth. Now, the whole world can see with the naked eye what's on that Holy Mountain; and, it's not a crumbled, burnt wall on a little hill.

God brought this into being, just as He promised.

God's WAYS never change but He keeps on talking whether people like it or not. Lesson most Jews have now learned: their forefathers, who had a reputation for killing the Prophets God sends, certainly couldn't shut God up and neither could the Christians or Muslims.


" i also live in today's generation, and know and have anything what you have,

No, you don't ......and, thankfully, I don't have some things that you have.


"new means when God's spirit and wisdom renews in the soul and spirit"

So, you admit you have nothing new.

chay chayi: Nonsense
We have God, and that's the point, Heaven is not gardens etc. Heaven is God's presence in the soul and spirit

Just to know, that The mountain was full of all kinds of flowers when the Torah was given, The Torah is the point of life, you have no idea what Judaism is or feels, as long you are not Jewish, as long you don't drink milk, you will never know what milk is, what it tastes, Judaism is a spirit that non Jews cannot know

And besides, God gave his nation a land, and its growing and blossoms

Zanjan: We have God too, and the point is ..........wait for it...........-> you don't own Him!

What babe hasn't tasted milk? You can keep drinking it if you want - Baha'is prefer the meat.

I've been all over Israel - it's a desert. The only place it blossoms is in the Baha'i gardens. That's why the Jews get their wedding photos taken there.

chay chayi: ^^^Empty lies, Israel is the beauties land in the world, and it blossoms from day to day

Milk is healthier and more necessary for life and sweeter than meat, with no milk you cannot live normal and healthy, all dairy food are from milk, all babies grow on milk, this is the right and healthy way, besides that Judaism is both, milk, honey, and meat

Non Jews don't have God, his presence his spirit like the Jews, Judaism is God's presence, as long you are not Jewish, you will never know what Judaism is

shadowline: Has it ever seemed a bit, uh, parochial to you, that the Creator of all and everything should have revealed Himself to, and care about, only one small people? That makes Him seem like a rather small God, don't you think?

chay chayi: No, because when God gave the Torah to the Jews, God told to Moses he should write it in all 70 languages, for all 70 nations that were in that time, besides the original language written to the Jews in Hebrew

shadowline: That doesn't seem to have worked, though. Neither all 70 nations that were in the world at that time, nor all that are in it now, or anything like all, have accepted the Torah. Couldn't God have come up with a better plan than one destined to fail almost completely?

chay chayi: They were not able to accept the Torah, because their soul was far from God's way, but God wanted them to know about the truth

ghostgeek: Why did the Torah need to be written at all Chayiii? Considering that most people couldn't read back then having it in writing would seem pointless. If God wanted all nations to have the Torah all He would have had to do was put it into the mind of each and every person on earth. A simple thing for God to do, don't you think?

chay chayi: The way to realize God is that you deserve it, God does not put things into your mind, and so if you want to eat or drink, you must put it in your mouth, God wont put it

chay chayi: A quote about the truth what Islam is

Friend, you may consider yourself smart but the way you answer shows otherwise. You should be answering the points and not attack the person with insults. You can not force me to believe what you think are facts when you cannot even get the information straight. I never said ‘unnecessary facts’ as you keep repeating. I meant not all information or knowledge are NECESSARILY facts.
I am making my positions clearer:
ISIS is Islamic. They are Muslims! Evidences are so vast. I don’t see your so called ‘Yinon Plan’ as a fact that denies they are Muslims.
Is not the way to convert to Islam the reciting of the shahada? Show me a fact that they believe otherwise.
The Qur’an has many verses on killing, raping captives, and terrorizing disbelievers which the ISIS people are doing. Read (4:24, 5:33, 8:12, 9.5, 9:29 among others). The Qur’an is the book that is referred by ISIS.
Islam is not a religion of peace.
How can it be a religion of peace when it has jihad as one of its core doctrines?
History has proven that Muslims conquered the lands once dominantly of other religions by force (e.g. Turkey, Egypt, Syria, Pakistan, and so on)
The peaceful verses (Meccan) in the Qur’an were succeeded by the violent ones (Medinan) thus they are abrogated ( Surah 2:106)
Your prophet spent his life fighting and killing even Jews and Christians.
Groups of your kind like Al-Qaeda, ISIS, Boko Haram, Jimaah Islamiyah, Muslim Brotherhood, Hamas are terrorist groups or are supporters of the terrorists. Even the groups like CAIR and ISNA have links to terrorist groups.
3. Islam is a totalitarian religion.
Nations like Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, and others do not give freedom to other religions to flourish in their land.
It aims to dominate the world and changed laws into shariah compliant and subjugate others.
You must be familiar with the Hadith because you are a Muslim. You must have read that your prophet had many times tried to commit suicide by attempting to jump in a cliff because he taught he was demon-possessed. You may not call those who blow up themselves and others as suicide bombers but you call them martyrs. Hamas and other Muslim groups are training children to be martyrs and fighters (and using them as human shield) , to kill and die for your Allah (surah 9:111).

You quote verses in the Bible . First you must treat the Bible and the Qur’an differently. In the Bible, you have to understand the context of the whole chapter or book before treating a verse. Treatment of the Qur’an may be different. Also, in the Christian society, the state and religion are separate. That means that when a country considering itself Christian declares war with another, it does not mean religious war like your ‘jihad’.
Isaiah 13:15-18 tells of the doom of Babylonians in the hands of the Medes and the Persians. It was not a command to be violent.
Deuteronomy 20:13-15 tells of a command to the Israelites in the time of Moses to kill the males in the city that are not part of the cities that God gave Israel for an inheritance (Deuteronomy 20:17) that will not accept their offer of peace. But if they do, they will not be killed but are only pay tribute to the Israelites (Deuteronomy 20:10-11). Friend, you added the word (for raping ). It was not there. Possibly, the reason why women are preserved are for them to be servants or concubines but not as sex slaves as in the case where Muslims are the conquerors where they will rape women even if their husbands are still alive.

Deuteronomy 20 :16 tells of the utter destruction for all the inhabitants of the cities mentioned in Deuteronomy 20:17. These are the cities that God intended for His people Israel as an inheritance. Their total annihilation was God’s punishment for their idolatrous practices. The Holy Land, especially Jerusalem, belongs to the Israelites/Jews and yet you are desecrating their most holy place by putting a mosque there. You have Mecca and Medina as yours.

Matthew 10:34 mentions of a sword but it does not mean violence. The sword here means “division” or diversity of persuasions if you continue to read Matthew 10:35. Also a parallel in Luke 12:51-53.

I am sure enough that these are not the verses used by ISIS but the Qur’an.
Again, get your information right. Have you ever read the article you shared to me about Mossab Hassan Yousef? He has worked with Israel Security Agency (Shin Bet) after he converted to Christianity but not to wreck terror but to help Israel identify Hamas operatives and Hamas plans of terrorism .

TrueWord: chayii, it looks like you copied and pasted this from some ignorant individual who has no knowledge of Islam, rather just full of hatred and misconceptions of Islam. Please understand one thing. Islam means submission to God. It is not a new religion and it is the same religion of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc. Furthermore, you will always find black sheeps in every religion. If you look in Christian history for example, you will find the Christian Crusaders and the KKK who based their beliefs on the Bible. There are verses in the Qur'an that are commonly put out of their context. If you did not study the Qur'an, its historical significance, and its interpretations, then I am sorry to say but you are in no position to place conclusions and judgement as to the verses of the Qur'an and Islam in general. It is quite simple for the ignorant to read a verse from the Qur'an, Bible, or OT and assume different from what is meant. For example, if one was to read the Gospel of Luke and see the following verse:

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and kill them in front of me.' [Luke 19:27]

Someone who is an ignorant person and who has not studied the scriptures may assume that Jesus was violent and preaching violence. However, the fact is that in this verse, Jesus was telling a king's story and giving an analogy.

Similarly, one may read a verse in the Qur'an and acquire the wrong idea as to what is meant. This happens with both Muslims and non-Muslims. Remember, the Qur'an is the same book that states the following verse and many other verses of its like:

"...if anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he had saved the lives of all mankind" [5:32]

Lastly, a big problem with our time is that many mix politics with religion. Please note that both are separate. Islam is a simple religion focused on submission to God and having a connection/relationship with God. It is no more and no less. Let us focus on worshiping God in peace. Do not judge a religion based on the actions of black sheeps. Study and learn the scriptures, worship God in peace..that simple. So please do not go to extreme limits with your comments. Thank you in advance.

TrueWord: In addition, please revert back to the topic of the forum if you wish, otherwise I would kindly request that you take your comments elsewhere. Thank you.

Zanjan: Chay, what on earth are you doing posting stuff about Islam in this topic? Baha'is are not Muslims.

Furthermore, unlike previous religions, the Baha'i Faith has no sects - it's ONE. God has given us a special Covenant, the power of which prevents sects from forming. This Day of God will not be followed by night, as it was in the old world order.

As far as ISIS and other militant groups go, Muslims around the world have denounced them as not being Muslim at all. . In fact, the Arab Emirates, now bombing them, have disavowed all these groups, saying they have no right to use the name of Islam so they've assigned them a different label, one we'd ALL do well to use. PARTICULARLY the Media. We should inform the media of the difference and importance of the sacred, and impress on the media to respect this.

Zanjan: "God does not put things into you mind"

Then you should not pray or observe any of the laws. God puts things into the heart - anger, hatred and contempt are not amongst them. Where the presence of God is, stands unconditional love.

chay chayi: I meant to say that there are things "you" must do, but of course God interacts with people

Zanjan: tapity tapity tapity

chay chayi:

Zanjan: God, Himself, created a great diversity in the world of existence - there's a reason for that. He loves the beauty of diversity so we should treasure all its qualities just as He does. This creation belongs to GOD, not us.

God has never left humans without Prophets, no matter where they lived on earth. The one distinction we see is that all the High Prophets, Who's religions were the most widespread and established on earth, issued form the middle east.

The reason for that is those people were the most needy, difficult, debased and rebellious of all people on earth. He came to the worst of the worst and changed them into something they weren't before - He civilized them. This is the power of God over the power of man's attempt to do the same..

Zanjan: So, if you think the people of the middle east are still the worst of the worst, here's a sobering thought for you, albeit a political one: (I use it because people notice politics more)

President Obama has so often in speeches informed the world how difficult his job is because congress can't stop its infighting; at every turn, it blocks him from what needs to be done for the American people. (similar to Canadian government but we televise the infighting) This is the peaceful West, where they can't agree on anything.

YET, Obama is the first ever American president, who, despite this strife and belligerence within his own government, has been instrumental in marshaling the Arab and other Muslim counties to cooperate with each other and be united with the rest of the world in working together on a common goal.

Ten years ago, no one thought this could have been possible. I assure you that God works through whom HE chooses, no matter what you say about which religion is better and who your friends and enemies are.

To each of us, He assigns a work - it's ours to try to live up to that potential.

In this Day, God has commanded the people of all religions to work together in a united effort of Faith in the Cause of God. Those who've begun to do that have seen the beauty, love and prosperity in doing so. Their faith has been strengthened and lifted to levels they had not known in many centuries.

chay chayi: No
The Jews were chosen to God, because they were the best of all people, God chose them because of Abraham Isaac and Jacob, they were holy beloved to God, and their children after them, like them, and even more

TrueWord: Chayii, the Hebrew word for “Jew” is Yehudi. Scholars agree that this term is derived from the name of one of Jacob’s twelve sons, Yehudhah (Judah). According to the Bible, the child’s mother chose this name to praise the Lord. The New English Translation Bible states that the name means “he will be praised.” Yehudi, thus, is taken to have originally referred to a member of the tribe of Judah. This etymology is reiterated by some Muslim writers as well.

The term was then applied to the inhabitants of the southern kingdom of Judah or Judea, which consisted of the tribes of Jacob’s sons Judah and his half brother Benjamin. It is in this broader sense of an inhabitant of the kingdom of Judah that the term “Jew” makes its first appearance in the Bible late in 2 Kings 16:6.

The popular explanation of how the term “Jew” came to denote all adherents of Judaism is based on the Biblical narrative. When the Assyrians attacked the northern state of Israel in 721 CE after its revolt they took its inhabitants captives and scattered them (2 Kings 18:9-11). The Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar attacked Judea three times in the first two decades of the 6th century BCE and took captives to Babylon (Jeremiah 52:28-30). Half a century later the two captive tribes of Judea were allowed to return to their homeland by the Persian king Cyrus. Judea was reestablished. The scattered ten tribes of Israel did not have such luck because they had already been assimilated by other peoples and were lost. So the inhabitants of Judea in exile were the only Israelites who retained their distinctive identity.

In the Qur’an, the Arabic masculine singular for “Jew” is Yahudi, whose plural cases are Yahud or Hud. But the Qur’an gives Yahudi a different etymology. The verb is hada which means “repented” or “returned to the right path.” This name comes sometimes in the plural verb form of Allathina hadu which means “those who repented.”

The Qur’an implies that the term “Jew” did not exist before Moses or, more precisely, the Torah. In other words, it was coined by God Himself, as He coined the term “Muslim” (22.78).

The following verses confirm this fact by stressing that neither Abraham nor any of his sons and grandsons, including Israel (Jacob), could have been a “Jew” or Nasrani (Christian), because both the Torah and the Injil, where these terms came from, were revealed after them:

"O People of the Book! Why do you argue about Abraham, when the Torah and the Injil were not sent down till after him? Have you no sense?" (3.65)

"You have argued about things that you have knowledge of, so why do you argue about what you have no knowledge of? Allah knows and you do not know." (3.66)

"Abraham was not a Jew or Christian, but he was upright, a Muslim (someone who surrenders to God), and he was not one of the polytheists." (3.67)

"The people who are most worthy of Abraham are those who followed him, this Prophet (Muhammad), and those who believed [in Muhammad]. Allah is the patron of the believers." (3.68)

They said: “Be Jews or Christians so that you may be guided.” Say [O Muhammad!]: “Not so, but follow the religion of Abraham who was upright and was not one of the polytheists.” (2.135)

"Or do you [O People of the Book!] say that Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Asbat (Jacob’s sons) were Jews or Christians? Say [O Muhammad!]: “Do you know best or Allah does?” And who is more of a wrongdoer than he who conceals a testimony that he has from Allah? Allah is not unaware of what you do." (2.140)

"This is a nation that has passed away. Theirs is what they gained, and yours is what you gain. You shall not be asked about what they have done." (2.141)

The fact that the forefathers of the Israelites were not “Jews” leaves no doubt that this term, unlike “Children of Israel,” is not gentilic. It is a name for those who believed in Moses’ message and embraced his religion, regardless of their ethnic origin. Although Moses’ main goal was to deliver the Israelites and take them out of Egypt, his prophetic mission had a wider scope and his religious message did not target the Israelites only. Non-Israelite people in Canaan, for instance, would have converted to the new religion of Moses and become as much Jews as the Israelite believers. The domain of the activity of any prophet might well be limited for practical reasons, but not so as a matter of principle. For example, when two prison inmates in polytheistic Egypt asked prophet Joseph to interpret their dreams he started first by preaching about his monotheistic religion, obviously hoping to convert them (12.35-41). The Qur’an also tells us, in addition to Pharaoh’s wife (66.11), of an Egyptian man who believed in Moses:

A believing man from Pharaoh’s people who concealed his faith said: “Will you kill a man for saying ‘my Lord is Allah’ when he has come to you with manifest proofs from your Lord? If he is a liar then his lie would be against him, and if he is truthful then some of what he has threatened you with would fall on you. Allah does not guide one who is an extravagant liar.” (40.28)

Significantly, the Qur’an does not describe this non Israelite who believed in Moses’ message as a “Jew” but rather a “believer.” Even more telling is the fact that throughout Moses’ struggle with Pharaoh, only the term “Children of Israel” is used for Moses’ people. At no point during the confrontation the Israelites were called Jews. This is due to the fact that the Torah had not been revealed then so those who believed in Moses had not been called Jews yet.

The earliest historical event in which the Qur’an calls the followers of Moses “Jews” is after the exodus when seventy of Moses’ people went with him to the mount where he used to converse with God in order to hear His words. A verse in one of the two accounts of this event reveals the Qur’anic etymology of the word “Jew”:

Moses chose from his people seventy for our appointment. When the earthquake overtook them he said: “My Lord! Had you willed, you could have killed them and me before. Would You kill us for what the fools among us have done? This is not but Your trial with which You send astray whom You will and guide whom You will. You are our guardian, so forgive us and show mercy to us, and You are the best of forgivers. (7.155) Write down for us good in this world and in the hereafter. We have repented to You.” He said: “I will strike with My torment whom I will, and My mercy embraces everything, so I shall write it down for those who are pious, give alms, and believe in Our signs.” (7.156)
In 7.156, Moses prays to God saying inna hudna ilayka which means “we have repented to You.” According to the Qur’an, this event occurred after Moses’ reception of the “Tablets” which were inscribed by God. In his appeal to God, Moses used a term that was already coined by God in the Torah.

Zanjan: Finally, some accuracy!

It's interesting to note that Muhammad considered the Jews as being a nation that had passed away. They're still with us so I figure He meant "passed away in spirit".

It's not difficult to see that all modern Jews are an entirely different people from their forefathers. That's actually a good thing - the Remanent survived because they changed the way they did things. Yet amongst modern Jews are countless sects because they still don't agree with each other; while that part hasn't changed, the wandering of some has led them into the canyons of absurdity.

What's weird are groups who call themselves Jews but say they're atheists - yes, Jewish atheist groups exist. However, I don't suppose that will be for too much longer because they're looking sillier every day. Then there are the Jews for Jesus groups, which is just as weird.

When you talk to these people and ask them why, they say they consider themselves as belonging to a civilization, not a religion. In their case, that's ridiculous - there's no way they can hide that they think of themselves as a race.

chay chayi: All the naming are not a new religion, The religion had no name, the nation was called on the admired name of Jacob - Israel, Jacob - Israel had all his sons in God's way, and they started the nation of Israel - the children of Israel, the name of the nation is Israel, the word Jew is the name Yehudah, in English they translate the letter Y to J on all Hebrew words (and its incorrect) the Word Jew is not something new in religion, its the name of the tribe of Yehudah (Judah)

So there is only one religion - God's Torah given to the children of Israel, the religion is not nameable

Nothing changed any time and generation, its all one thing - the Torah God gave to the children of Israel

The names Jew, Hebrews, Israelites, are nothing about religion, its all names to the nation of Israel, the only true Jews are those ho follow the Torah, those who not, are Jews by race but corrupted

The Jews never passed away, till today (after ww2) are about 2,500,000 Jews that follow the Torah, others (secular, atheist, messianic, modern, reform, etc,) are all corrupted

And Judaism is a race, its the children of Israel, its not only a belief, to become Jewish you must convert, there are commands in Judaism how to be converted, if you don't do that, you are not Jewish, and you don't even know what Judaism "really" "truly" is

Zanjan: Chay, religions have been named and you can't change that reality. However, God is One, the Cause of God is one; therefore, the Faith of God is one. A true believer is not one who interprets any of the scriptures a certain way or holds any ethnic identity or follows certain traditions. A true believer is one who has faith in the Divine Cause as a whole.

No one can misunderstand the fact that the Faith of God has always maintained that having a name doesn't make you one of God's favourites. Whether or not you adopt a name for yourself, or God may name you, is no guarantee His divine bestowals will continually descend on you.

I'll break my normal convention for a moment to illustrate this through Baha'i scriptures:

"Man has the power both to do good and to do evil; If his power for good predominates and his inclination to do wrong are conquered, then man in the truth may be called a saint."

"Entrance into the Kingdom is through the love of God, through detachment, through holiness and chastity, through truthfulness, purity, steadfastness, faithfulness, and the sacrifice of life."

(Abdu'l - Baha)