Islam-- Way of life (Page 4)

TrueWord: @Chayi,

All the Prophets from Adam to Mohammed (peace be upon him) were prophets/messengers of Allah.

Now, regarding what you stated regarding Abraham (peace be upon him), Allah states in the Qur'an:

"O People of the Scripture, why do you argue about Abraham while the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed until after him? Then will you not reason?" [Qur'an 3:65]

"Here you are - those who have argued about that of which you have [some] knowledge, but why do you argue about that of which you have no knowledge? And Allah knows, while you know not." [Qur'an 3:66]

"Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was one inclining toward truth, a Muslim [submitting to Allah ]. And he was not of the polytheists." [Qur'an 3:67]


As shown in the verse above, Abraham was a Muslim - submitter to Allah (God).

Further, there are noteworthy contradictions in the Torah which prove that the book you read today is NOT the true word of Allah (God).

For example, Exodus 12:40 states “The habitation of the Children of Israel during which they dwelled in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years.”

This verse clearly contradicts Exodus 6:18-20 which states that Kohath lived 133 years and Amram lived 137 years. Kohath came to Egypt with Jacob (Genesis 46:11). Moses, the son of Amram, died at the age of 120 (Deut. 34:7), which was 40 years after the Exodus, making Moses 80 years old at the time of Exodus. Therefore the Egyptian exile could not have lasted more than 350 years. (In fact, according to the Talmudic tradition, it lasted only 210 years.)

This contradiction has been addressed by many from the twelfth century to the present. This verse is a proof that the Torah you carry today is not the true word of Allah (God), since obviously God would not have made a mistake and the number 430 in Exodus 12:40 is clearly a mistake.

The Torah that was initially revealed to Moses was the only original and pure version of God's (Allah's) words. What you read today is a fabricated book that has been modified and manipulated by the desires of your ancestors.

Lastly, know that all the Prophets - Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, etc. and Mohammad (peace be upon them all) - were all Muslims (submitters to Allah).

@ Chayi, I invite you to rediscover your roots and accept Islam - Submission to Allah (God) as all of the Prophets have proclaimed.

chayim: The Talmud says that the 430 years starts from the birth of Abrahams son Yitzchuck (Isaac) because God said to Abraham that his children will be in a land not their land, and Israel was not his land untill after 40 years in the desert, and from the birth of his son Yitzchuck till they went out of Egypt was 430 years

But God said to Abraham 400 years, so it has many ways how to understand it, of witch kind of suffering it was, like when they were in Egypt there was many stages of their sufferings

TrueWord: @Chayi,

I advise you re-read my posting above, it appears to me that you have dismissed what I have stated.


Thanks,
TrueWord

moofy: @Chayi:

First of all, I am not married.
Your attempts at smearing my name simply because you hold extreme views that are usually outside of Jewish theology is not my problem.

I'd be more than happy to post pictures of my parent's ketubah (marriage contract).

Secondly, just because I'm not currently Orthodox, does not mean I was not raised Orthodox, nor does it mean my family is not still Orthodox, nor does it imply ignorance.

My father's family is from Aleppo: The Syrian Jewish community is very strict in terms of observance, so your statements are without merit.

I can back every statement I made with citation.

You contradict yourself in your own claims that a Jew does not stop being Jewish simply because they aren't religious.

Also, calling people names and being as rude as you are is uncalled for. I would have expected you to learn midos (manners) in your home growing up.

moofy: @Nuur:

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This verse is talking about both Jews and Christians. in addition, I see you and chaki disagreed on some areas as you mentioned above . The quran does mention this dispute between Jews and Christians over the scripture that god gave to moses and Jesus (peace be upon them).
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I'm going to take the verse of the Qu'Ran out of this and look at the argument itself. The problem I find with it, is that all religions; including Islam have some form of disagreements between observance, political details, or belief (Sunni/Shia for example).

My problem with Chayi is not solely theological: It's that he recants things as Jewish that aren't (like his belief that he is the grandson of Ruth and King David). He refuses to accept standard Orthodox viewpoints that aren't "in sync" with his personal opinions.

He also is not part of a Hassidic community and no longer studying, which I believe is due to some instability he expresses which doesn't align with Judaism.

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In terms of your arguments:

You are looking at it solely from YOUR religions perspective, while I am explaining the Jewish outlook/belief on such things.

Allah is simply the Arabic word for G-d: Do you think M/E Jews don't also use the term? Jews and Muslims are inherently monotheistic (meaning, we don't accept The Trinity and solely believe in One G-d).

Our contention doesn't lie with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, or Moses.
Jews do not believe in Jesus as a son of G-d/Deity/Messiah/etc...

moofy: For example, Exodus 12:40 states “The habitation of the Children of Israel during which they dwelled in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years.”

This verse clearly contradicts Exodus 6:18-20 which states that Kohath lived 133 years and Amram lived 137 years. Kohath came to Egypt with Jacob (Genesis 46:11). Moses, the son of Amram, died at the age of 120 (Deut. 34:7), which was 40 years after the Exodus, making Moses 80 years old at the time of Exodus. Therefore the Egyptian exile could not have lasted more than 350 years. (In fact, according to the Talmudic tradition, it lasted only 210 years.)
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The countdown of 400 years began with Isaac's birth. G‑d's promise does not refer to Egypt by name, rather to a "land that is not theirs." As soon as Abraham had a child, his seed were subjected to living in lands that were not theirs - including Canaan which wasn't "theirs" at the time.

Isaac was 60 years old when Jacob was born and Jacob was 130 years old when he went down to Egypt. This means that 190 of the 400 years elapsed before the Israelites arrived in Egypt.

So the Israelites were in Egypt for a total of 210 years.

When Jacob first instructed his sons to descend to Egypt, he said, "Go down ("רדו" ) there and buy [food]." The numerical value of the Hebrew letters of the word "רדו" ("redu," "go down" ) is exactly 210.

chayim: 1) To have sex with a non Jew, 2) and have kids from him, is a big sin in Judaism, and your spirit and soul is fallen from God, so you have no knowledge what Judaism is

chayim: A non-Jew cannot reach the level of a Jew, only the Jews are "in" the truth, the non Jews are "outside and around" the truth but not in it, and by the day of Mushiach they will not be such a thing as non-Jewish, even by the days when Temple was existing and he bought a non-Jewish slave, he had to become part Jewish, to be circumcised and serve most commands like woman

Non-Jews if they were not sinned and they believed in God, they don't go to hell, they go to heaven, but it's not the level of heaven that a Jew goes, the level and kind of Jewish Heaven is totally different and higher than the place where the righteous non-Jews go

But even the Jews themself are not all equal, everyone goes to a level in Heaven according how good he was

Nuur25: @Chay
The topic of this discussion mainly focuses on Islam__way of life. We really appreciate if you only talk about something that is relevant to Islam.

Thank you,

moofy: Chayi,

That is an exceptionally rude thing to say.

Teshuvah, repentance and atonement have always existed in Judaism.
Judaism has never had an "all-or-nothing" approach in terms of belief.

In any case:
I will go ahead and try to change the subject.
Judaism and Islam actually have quite a few things in common.

chayim: To moofy: an reply to what she wrote above

Topic: Religion

Nuur25: @Chayi
of course the topic of this thread is religion, but as you may have been noticed from the very beginning, our emphasis has mainly focused on Islam (Way of life).

@moofy
You are absolutely right. Muslims and jews do have a few things in common. we are trying to work on the gap between us now, therefore we can learn something from each other's faith.

chayim: Nuur: no, it's a link, click on it, and it goes to the link

ghostgeek: At the moment I'm reading a book called "The Jesus Mysteries." It suggests the Jesus story is a myth, that there never was an historical Jesus. If true, this means that Islam is wrong in talking about the prophet Jesus. In which case, did God not know the truth? Or was Mohammed a man who heared voices, just not one speaking the word of God?

Zanjan: Why on earth would you read a book that suggested the Jesus story is myth? Is this not something you can see for yourself? If not, why would you be led by someone else who couldn't tell if a thing was true or not?

You could believe the Jesus story is a myth but notice that God's Prophets say its not. Generally, myths don't have any impact on civilization. Weigh who would actually know more about this.

Zanjan: Moofy: “Breaking a contract does not release you from it. It actually causes a penalty as a result.”

Nope, not unless the contract states there’s a penalty for breaking it, and what that penalty is. Members in the religion of God have a special contract with God – it’s called the Covenant, and it’s a lengthy study.

God also made a covenant with mankind – in it, He promised to always do something, no matter what humans do – it's to always send His Prophets, and that He would never leave us alone.

Zanjan: Question on Islamic Lifestyle - why do some Muslim women in North America, and other countries, wear head coverings but other practicing Muslim women don't? I already know they're from different sects; that's not what I'm asking about. I'm asking about the principles behind both.

ghostgeek: Why wouldn't I read a book that claims the man Jesus never walked the earth, never preached, in fact never existed at all? I consider Jesus a significant figure, and if all we are told about him is a lie then it has ramifications for half the world's population. So I ask again Zanjan, why wouldn't I read such a book?

chayim: God said that he will be with the children of Jacob, and they will be his nation, and his words and spirit will be with them, they are chosen, and if they will sin he will punish them, till they will improve totally, and anyone who wants to come to God totally must Join the Jewish nation by accepting all commandments of the Torah, there is no such a thing as islam or christianity

ghostgeek: Well Chayi, in that case I'll go my own way and we'll meet up in Hell. See you there.

ghostgeek:

Zanjan: "So I ask again Zanjan, why wouldn't I read such a book? "

Because you have the evidence that somebody had profound wisdom, enough to leave His words behind to make a visible and resounding impact on the world. If you're a sane person, learning to understand those gems of wisdom would be your objective. Reading that other book about Him is like a hunter standing on a whale, shooting at minnows.

Zanjan: Shades of Joseph Campbell! Myths are essentially themes, overlaying classical behavior patterns; history repeats itself through these. Same story, different names in every generation. The only remarkable difference is intensity, the highest degree of which appears in that shadow band, which delineates the end and beginning of a cycle.

These movements are like clockwork, where its gears noisily grind to a halt, stopping for just a second, then noisily turn in reverse to pick up speed.

Paraphrasing Joseph Campbell: "eternity isn't about time - there is no time in that dimension - eternity is about how we participate in the game of life, in the here and now." He believed that once we pass from this world, we'd be so enamored of God, we'd forget about this world.

moofy: Zanjan: Moofy: “Breaking a contract does not release you from it. It actually causes a penalty as a result.”

Nope, not unless the contract states there’s a penalty for breaking it, and what that penalty is. Members in the religion of God have a special contract with God – it’s called the Covenant, and it’s a lengthy study.

God also made a covenant with mankind – in it, He promised to always do something, no matter what humans do – it's to always send His Prophets, and that He would never leave us alone.
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I'm not saying or denying that the Noahide laws exist for mankind. In Jewish theology, our actions in this life determine how closely one rests with the ultimate Divine presence of G-d in the next life.

Here, this may explain i a bit better: