The Serpent told the truth, God lied. (Page 34)

chay chayi: No, they were ashamed for their lust in front of God's presence as they were naked

orkanen: Nowhere does it state that they were ashamed from lust. It does however state that they were ashamed because they were naked. No explanation given.

chay chayi: Ashamed of nakedness is because of lust, that's why they were created with no dress, God did not give them to dress like he gave them food, because before they sinned clothes were not necessary, it was no definition of nakedness, naked means that you are missing something to cover you, before sin was nothing to cover, after sinned they had to cover their lust

Corwin: Rubbish.

Being ashamed to be naked is purely a cultural distinction. There are still cultures today that exist in warm climates that have no qualms about walking around naked. Clothing evolved as a protection against the elements, not because of some kind of lustful shamefulness... then in more recent millennia the more prudish cultures attached some kind of "indecency" to the idea of nakedness, and equated nakedness to be akin to sexual eroticism.

orkanen: Thank you for jumping the gun, Corvin. I was hoping for him to find that out for himself, as well as finding out for himself that he reads between the lines what isn't there. Now he won't.

chay chayi: No, nakedness brings sexual awakeness, besides that clothes brings and gives more mind and brains

Corwin: My apologies, Ork.

But if you're waiting for Chayiii to listen to reason and have some kind of epiphany, you'll be waiting a long time.

@Chayiii -- Nakedness is simply a matter of not wearing clothing... nothing more. There is nothing shameful about the human body, nor is nakedness akin to sex. Maybe it is for you, which means that you have issues, pal.

Here's how you can figure out the difference for yourself -- look at a famous Renoir painting of the nude female form... perhaps Rokeby's Venus that hangs in the Louvre... or Michelangelo's depiction of David carved in marble...
... then watch some porn...... notice the difference?

chay chayi: Again, nakedness is only a problem if its with lust and orgasm, that's why when you have sex you are not dressed, ok ???, and being dressed makes your mind better and healthier and intelligence

Corwin: Some would argue that being naked, and being around others who are naked, WITHOUT thoughts of a sexual nature, would mean that it is THEY who have a better, healthier and intelligent mind.

And there are plenty of sexual things you can do with your clothes on... in fact there is an entire line of clothing intended to heighten sexual awareness... it's called lingerie.

orkanen: I disagree. When cleaning poo from my naked son, I feel not not sexual desire, but love for him. Clothes give protection against elements. When I undress, I am no less intelligent then when wearing clothes.

ghostgeek: If I'm getting this right Chayiii is saying that God has a dim view of nakedness because it leads to lust, which in turn leads to fornication, from whence children sometimes follow. So how does that square with God's injunction to Adam that he should go forth and be fruitful?

chay chayi: First of all you can have sex with minimized orgasm, second, sex between husband and wife is not fornication, its a relationship

ghostgeek: Why does God care what you get up to so long as you produce the sprogs?

wayne elliott: Despite the indoctrinations of religion, I have learned that nakedness, sex, orgasm, eating fruit, showering, calls of nature - 'taking a dump' as ork so colourfully put it - and, yes, even lust are perfectly natural and part of the whole that is this realm of learning. Having sex "with (a) minimised orgasm" sounds painful and self defeating. Obsessions with sex and lashings of guilt is the foundation of organised religion.

ghostgeek: If we are to believe Chayiii, Judaism certainly seems to have lashings of something it's obsessed with.

h0nd0: god doesnt watch a marriage bed.. he allows orgasm, everything between a man and wife.. that produces offspring is allowed;; also God marries a couple not the well known man.. preacher, priest, high priest, shaman, or king, so every girl youve ever made love too.. is actually your wife in order of relationship.. as ugly as they became or as they moved on.. they are still your wife.. by Gods law.. so be polite to them.. he sees that.. if you havent been.. maybe you should make a point to honor your relationship as God intended..

ghostgeek: The snake tells a different story. He tells you to say, "Bugger to God." Follow the snake and you're free.

ghostgeek: The way of the Serpent is truth, always the painful option.

h0nd0: nothing is free.. theres a price for everything.. the serpent crawled on his belly because the price he pays is the fact he cant stand up straight or tell a true tale.. he only tells the tales of lies for his own safety.. the major fear of being trampled by people who arent going to let him slither away.. when the truth comes out.. yes.. all those who have been mis-lead by him wont let him get away..

ghostgeek: Never put your trust in gods, because they are selfish deceivers. Quick to anger, and terrible in their vengence, gods are parasitic creatures that need humans to survive. That is the hidden message of all the religious texts that have ever been written.

Trust the Serpent, for he told the truth, and revealed that God is a liar.

h0nd0: just to know you think of them before God you are guilty of blasphomy and idolitry .. which in all account you need help to be restored.. i can do nothing for you.. seek the true God.. not his puppet angel who triggers your emotional falesy .. get in touch with the true God to live.. or do nothing and continue on your demise

ghostgeek: Sorry, but I don't have the true God's telephone number. See, that's the problem. There's no way to contact the blighter.

h0nd0: its 1-800-get-life

ghostgeek: In truth, given all the gods that have ever been created in the fertile imaginations of men, I cannot see how anyone can talk about the "true God." Every god is the "true God" to those who believe.

RAUL LETING ACCOUNT: Adam and eve became disconnected from life, they were dead.