The True Truth

chayi: Truth rules

chayi: A Messiah is not God, (besides that jesus was not the Messiah at all) the concept of a Messiah is; he is the closest to God, he has God's spirit, the whole world can only come to this level only through him, through his personality, spirit

peter and paul took this Jewish knowledge, and put it up on jesus

It does not mean of anything that he's God in flesh, it's a totally misunderstood, it only means that God's spirit is in him

R E B E C C A: huh I thought they were two little dickie birds....

2 little dickie birds sat on a wall
1 named Peter, and 1 named Paul
fly away Peter, fly away Paul
come back ................. damit i cant remember the last line

Zanjan: Moses was a Messiah- how many people in the world are NOT Jewish?

Chayi, you say you're waiting for the Messiah and that He'll be here soon; Christians say the same thing too. Funny how that connection works. Yet Christians tell me their old Messiah is working just fine for them....so, it's not like they're actually waiting around for anything, ya know.

Is your old Messiah still working for you too?

Muslims, on the other hand, are split on this question - some believe the Messiah is to come, other don't believe there will ever be another one after Muhammad. Regardless, I've never got the impression from any of them that they're waiting around for anything either.

Your definition of Messiah could fit thousands of people - there's a little more to it than that. If you don't figure this out soon, you'll miss the Messiah, just like many did in the day of Moses.

chayi: No, Moses was not a Messiah, he was the greatest prophet
Moses himself said the last day of his life
That he knows Jews will sin, and they will be exiled for a long long time, till the end of the days, and then God will gather them back to their land, its written in Deuteronomy

The last prophecy book Malachi ends by saying; you should never change, add or remove of anything I told you all, till the end of the days when I will send the Messiah together with the prophet Elijah to gather all Jews back to their land

And based on many basics, i know it will be in 53 years sharply

Zanjan: The Jews have already been gathered and brought back to the land - a generation ago, in fact. Of course, not all Jews wanted to go there so, they didn't.

How many times do you think God has to do this before you're satisfied?

A Messiah is a powerful, princely leader who rescues God's people and sets them free from the bondage of soul and worldly oppression. He brings them to their new home. It takes two for that waltz.

If He achieves this 53 years from now, it's conceivable He's already been born......or your math is terribly off due to a piece of missing or neglected info.

Either way, the advent of the Jewish Messiah, the Christian Messiah, and the Muslim Messiah should coincide.

chayi: No, the Jews are not gathered back to their land, most religious Jews are not in Israel, most Israelis are not religious, Israel is today based on the UN basics of democracy, not on Judaism, they don't own the entire land, palestine terrors them

The Messiah will accomplish God's words and culture and presence in Israel and in the entire world, with one culture

Zanjan: I don't recall Moses listing all those exceptions to the rule that you've invented.

If these Jews are not religious, they're not the people of God. How do they deserve to live in the Holy Land? This promise is for HIS people, the people of the BOOK, not the people of the world.

God preserves the different cultures; He created diversity for a reason - to ensure robust life. Nope, no single culture. A common faith, yes.

Zanjan: "The last prophecy book Malachi ends by saying; you should never change, add or remove of anything I told you all"

That's not a prophecy, it's a spiritual guidance. YOU should not change anything. However, God and the Messiah can do exactly as they please - bring new commands, disclose new truths, scrap old laws if they wish. They have the authority, not us.

chayi: Not true
Diversity evolved be leaving God's way and culture, the truth is only one way, one culture

That's why the Israelis suffer, because they don't follow God

chayi: When i said prophecy, i meant about the arriving of the Messiah together with Elijah (what was never yet) in the end of the days

No, the Torah and ALL prophecy says; that God is not like human, his way and words are immortal, not changeable, and they all warned not to change anything forever

Zanjan: Gods ways are as God chooses, and so are His Words. If He sends a Messiah, He wouldn't be saying all the same things over again - that's just stupid. If His Words didn't save you before, repeating them won't give different results.

The Israelis suffer because they're trying to protect your ass from being blown to smithereens from incoming missiles and suicide bombers. They're also trying to protect all the holy sites - those that are sacred to all the peoples of the planet - from becoming bomb craters. You should be grateful.

You and the orthodox Jews wouldn't know how to handle the Palestinians/Iraqis/rebels of any kind etc. or govern a diverse society, especially on an International level - that's why you don't rule Israel.

The current rulers are in God's special service to protect the Holy land because you can't; whether you think they're religious or not doesn't matter - all are servants of God and they do His bidding. Do not be of the thankless.

R E B E C C A: Zanjan you have your facts wrong..The total number of people to have been killed in Gaza is 269, with a reported 267 Palestinians and just 2 Israelis. Also of that 267 only 27 were in the Palestinian army, the rest were civilians.

Zanjan: I didn't offer any facts on the mortality rate, Rebecca, but if I wanted to, I'd begin the count in 1945 and move forward.

Hamas doesn't give a crap about its own people, much less anyone else's. For land, false pride and revenge, they sacrifice their children. They don't even listen to the peace calls of Palestinians who want peace.

deuce916: Now come on chayi, you know the truth is that there is no god. That is the true truth. You just haven't stumbled upon it yet.

chayi: The zionist land is against God, God's words never change, the same way, but better cult, not religious means against God

dadman1240: Those who claim God does not exist need to explain the origin of intelligence
..... c r i c k e t s

dadman1240: The rebirth of Israel as an independent nation in 1948 is one of the most significant events in world history ... Never before has an entire race of people been without a homeland for so long without assimilating into surrounding populations .. HOWEVER, no other conquered race had the promise of God to .. “give all this land of Canaan to you and to your offspring forever.” ........... f o r e v e r

dadman1240: there is no right for the Palestinians to establish a 2nd Palestinian State via the extinction of the 1 Jewish State .... see HAMAS Charter http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp

Zanjan: Of course, we can all invent our own rights - people do it every day. So do countries.

But what rights has God, Himself, given us? God WILL speak over the heads of humans, no matter what anyone says. God's promise is a spiritual legacy, not a material one.

FYI, scriptures clearly state the Holy Land is promised ONLY to God's people who keep His Covenant - not to a race or nationality of people. This is why only the second generation of Moses' followers were permitted entry - the first were unworthy.

When God's people break the Covenant, they get booted. THIS - God's Promise - is forever. If you doubt that, look at how many times this land has switched hands.

dadman1240: "When God's people break the Covenant, they get booted" .... indeed they do / 70 AD for sure (the rejection of their Messiah) ..... however ............ "I ( God ) will bring my exiled people of Israel back from distant lands .. and they will rebuild their ruined cities and live in them again .. They will plant vineyards and gardens .. they will eat their crops and drink their wine .. I will firmly plant them there in their own land .. They will >> never again be uprooted << from the land I have given them" .. says the Lord your God . . . . Amos 9:14-15 . . . 750 BC

Zanjan: That partial passage from Amos refers to the Kingdom of Edom, which was given to Esau by Abraham; it wasn’t in Israel or Judah but south of there. ( stretching across the Sinai peninsula) The part of the passage you missed says:

Amos 9: 10 - 12

“10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.

11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:

12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.”

What day is this, do you think?

The prophecy Amos spoke of was the first Jewish exile to Babylonian captivity; however, there were some Jews who had fled Judah to go live in Edom and Egypt moments before that exile - they weren't taken into captivity, they were refugees.

Amos had predicted they’d return to re-build. This began around 538 B.C. There’s some discrepancy as to the date the first Temple was destroyed but they planned to re-build that and began laying the foundations. . Note that not all Jews returned. Maybe they felt they weren't worthy? There was still a lot of fighting going on after that.

With the first exile, the Edomites moved in to take the place of the Jews, in the area of Hebron; it was, to them, a new country (modern day West Bank and ancient land of the Canaanites). Note, King David once ruled there. On the return from captivity, some Jews went to live there as well. Edom disappeared from history after it was swallowed up by the Roman Empire.

So, Amos says “they will never again be uprooted?” Maybe look at that a little more closely – the second exile, after Jesus. Here’s what Amos’s text says:

“15 And I will plant them upon their land, and they shall no more be pulled up out of their land which I have given them, saith the LORD thy God.

There’s no mention of Israel here, not of God’s Holy Land either. Jews have owned land all over the known world and no one took it away from them. The people of God – where is their true home?

Israel’s borders have changed many times. It’s actual beginning as a state was around 1000 B.C. and grew to its largest area over a period of 200 years where it spread northward and included present day Lebanon. By 725 B.C., it had shrunk to barely a spot and was never its original size again.

So, according to God, how big is this Holy Land? When the Jews returned to their former land, it certainly wasn’t a sovereign country; it was always ruled by somebody else until 1948.
Not all Jews returned to it either. Maybe they didn't want to deal with the fighting?

dadman1240: well ... they're there now ... and they are being gathered from all nations ... I strongly believe that this will be the time that they are to >> never again be uprooted << from the land I have given them" .. says the Lord your God ........ even though all nations shall gather against them ....

Zechariah ( 520-470 BC ) says the following in this regards: ... "I ( God ) am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling .. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I (God) will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves" . . . Zechariah 12

HAMAS tried to move them and they are injured rather bad

http://gracethrufaith.com/ikvot-hamashiach/why-the-rebirth-of-israel-is-a-sign-of-the-end/

Zanjan: Dadman, you got the wrong "day" and the wrong text. Please don't lift verses or words out of context. The nations of the world today are not against Israel or Jerusalem; this is not about modern times.

Here is what Zechariah 12 actually says:

"12 The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."

Now, if you want to continue reading past the introduction to the actual prophecy in this chapter, please do:


"2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

4 In that day, saith the Lord, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.

5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the Lord of hosts their God.

6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

7 The Lord also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart."

If you continue on to Chapter 13, you'll see these events cross a span of only 500 years, which points to the Day of the Prophet Jesus. This chapter denotes both rise and fall, also return, then separation.

dadman1240: do you believe that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah ?

Zanjan: Jesus was the Messiah for anyone who wanted Him to be, Jews and Gentiles alike. Jesus did say the Jews should be taught first though (ref: the passage above) - something about them making better teachers of Christianity because of their roots in the old Testament.

This makes sense because Christianity was a natural progression for them. Those who didn't accept Him would have another chance with successive Messiahs, as that was the prophecy of Christianity and also of Islam.

For the stragglers, you can imagine the leap of faith required to bridge the gap, similar to missing a sequel in the Lord of the Rings Trilogy.