Misconceptions about Islam (Page 3)

orkanen: playboy highlife:

Chapter 65 The Divorce, verse 4 in the Quran speaks about divorcing a woman, specifying the consummation of marriage, i.e. sexual intercourse, then states that the waiting period for the woman to remarry is 3 months, be it before she's had her first period, or after, and so on. Bukhari vol. 7, book 62 no. 63 confirms it.

Islam allows the marriage of prepubescent girls, as Muhammad himself was married to Aisha when she was 6 and consummated it when she was 9.

'Bulúgh' does not mean puberty.

This page covers maturation as opposed to nutrition: http://www.ajcn.org/content/36/3/527.short

This page covers mental maturation: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~news/releases/2006/02/06.html

I think you missed out on what I wrote in my first posts. I also believe you missed out on the topic of this thread, so I'll repeat it for you, in capital letters.



MISCONCEPTIONS OF ISLAM



Is that clear enough for you or do I need to type it out again?

Perdurabo: this is just getting better!

' please bring me the quranic verses and evidences. and you guys obviously have no answer.'

'youve taken it out of context, you cant understand the Quran because you dont speak Arabic, and then if you show sources for ur evidence its all 'false & lies', translation is incorrect, reading with a closed mind', attack other religions etc etc

I was just waiting for the personal attacks and cries of 'islamaphobic'

Such predictable tactics when u have no reasonable rebuttals and have to defend the indefensible.

You're ticking all the boxes today!

The word 'Islamaphobic' is a made up word, used as a defence when people choose to question and criticise ur religion.

U dont have to dislike a person in order to dislike something they believe in.

Perdurabo: This is kind of appropriate. Its called 'How To Debate a Muslim' (from Infidel of sheikyermami

Lets see how many of them apply to Playboy.

When trying to debate with Muhammed worshipers you will end up frustrated and exasperated: Muhammedans are masters of a technique called ‘turnspeak’- they use Tu Quoque (’you do it too-arguments) ‘accuse the accuser’- they employ kitman & taqiyya (lies & deception and dissimulation) they deflect away from the subject matter to avoid getting nailed on the unpleasant things like the atrocities, the rape, the plunder, slavery and child-molesting of the ‘profit’ Mohammed and his companions. Inevitably, if you know your stuff-, you will be cursed, they will threaten to kill you and tell you that you will go to hell for questioning their belief-system.

Expect this and prepare yourself accordingly:

1. First of all, muslims will say, ”you are ignorant, you are a hypocrite, this is false information, this is a lie”, and, when it comes to Islamic terrorism: “get over it…”
Whatever you say is wrong and whatever they say is only right.

2. Next step is Taqqiya. i.e. “Islam means peace”, “Islam was not spread by sword but love”, “No compulsion in religion”,

3. If you quote from Koran or hadith, you will be accused of quoting verses in bits and pieces, or they claim ”suicide bombing is not allowed in Islam, there is nothing in the Koran…blah blah” or “FGM is un-Islamic” when it is in fact the Muslims who insist on such barbaric practices because of a vague hadith.

4. Be prepared for accusation that the verses you quoted are “twisted and out of context.” (an infidel cannot possibly understand Islam, but all’s well if you, no matter how foolish or ignorant, accept Islam…)

5. If you provide reference to your quote, then muslims will say “All your references are false and lies”, which implies only their references are true and correct.

6. You will be advised to “Read the koran first and you will see the light”

7. If you say you have already read it then they will doubt you as if you are a liar.

8. If you quote full verses (not bits & pieces) from koran and hadith, your translation is incorrect / misleading. Then you will be advised to learn Arabic and read the the original version.

9. If you say, I read the same Koran with most authentic translations, which muslims are referring to, then you will be asked “Did you read only the cover?”, “Read it with open mind”

(Read with closed mind, like a muslim reads by keeping their brains aside)

10. Besides your reading of the translated Koran or even though you know Arabic, if you quote from the Koran, they quote hadith, tafseer etc, but if you quote hadith, then they will say “Only Koran is authentic”.

11. Deflection: After all this, if you are still willing to continue, they will distract you and other readers from the original issue/topic and feed you with plenty of irrelevant issues.

12. If you are still sticking to the original issue, Muslims will attack other religions’ scriptures like the Bible, Torah, Vedas, Geeta etc and bring up events like global warming, world poverty, the KKK or ‘Tim McVeigh”, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine etc.

13. Be prepared for one or more muslims to showing their way of convincing, such as Copy & paste stuff or reference from crap Islamic sites. This includes verses from Koran & hadith, twisted facts from non islamic holy scriptures (like mohammads coming) prophesized in all of them or that the Jews (or Christians) have falsified their scriptures to deny Muhammad his rightful place as “the last prophet.”

14. In this context, one or more muslims will write about Miracles in the Koran or ‘koranic science’. Remember that whatever is discovered in recent time, Muslims will attribute it to Koran, but they will keep quite till it is discovered. They will never talk about the fallacies in the Koran like the “Sky is a dome on imaginary pillars”, “ the Sun sets in a muddy pond”, “the sun is revolving around the earth” etc. If you draw their attention to these fallacies, they will copy and paste crap again which is totally illogical and irrational. You will be again advised to read Koran.

15. You are about to loose your patience but still continuing, then comes personal attacks. You will be abused as fool, stupid, idiot, pig, dog etc. (in my case a Zionist, a label I wear with pride…)

16. If that does not work, then there will be accusations of taking money for your criticism of islam. You may get this also “Western media is biased, its propaganda to defame islam, Islam is wronged by all non muslims” etc.

17. If you don’t stop there, then muslims will run for your mother and sister.

18. If you are stubborn and still want to continue, you will be cursed like “Burn in hell, you will repent on judgement day, still time to seek the truth” etc

19. Towards the end, when all of the above has failed, you will be threatened directly like, “beware, watch it, keep cool, my sincere advice” or indirectly like “Give me your email id, don’t hide behind a false name, you are a coward (since you have a false id on the net), Then you might get an invitation to go to debate one to one or visit mosques or Islamic centers like Islamic Research Foundation in person” etc.

20. And finally- its drum beating, for all Muslioms, as if they won a debate, even when they lose miserably, because Koran is the word of allah.

djdan2: Some people have a misconseption that Islam is a peaceful religion.

Playboy highlife - (wrong username for a practising muslim!) - What are your thoughts on Islam and violence?

orkanen: Perdurabo:
Thank you for the list, I do enjoy it. As I've been engaged with such discussions before, but mostly with Christians, I should know what to expect. Yet, every time, I hope to meet an honest religious follower, if such a person exists. I still have lots to learn.

I've heard several times before, the accusation that I hate the Quran. My simple response to that is always that I'm indifferent to a book as badly written as the Quran, it's the followers I judge. On "I'll f**k your mother / sister", I usually reply "Why didn't you at once tell me you're a necrophile, I'll join you right away". Besides, the usual reply to that in my country is "She would love that", completely throwing them off guard.

It's fun, though. I guess that's why we do it. I particularly love seeking out new knowledge to support my claims.

djdan2: Playboy Highlife - Under Islamic law a number of your friends on wireclub would be serveraly punished if not killed for showing too much flesh.

What are your thoughts?

Under Islamic law anyone who speaks about Islam with Dissent will be imprisoned and possibly killed.

What are your thoughts?

Do you think Islam is peaceful or do you admit thats a misconception?

RahGuzaR: Yes showing your flesh is forbidden in Islam and there is no second though on this matter.

People who are showing their flesh will be punished, may be in this world but definately in life after here.
The book itself is complete and free of any kind of error but its the followers who does not follow Islam the way they should. Islam should not be judged just because some of its followers do not foolow it completely or at all.

djdan2: Of course it should be judged. If a politician had said things along the same lines, vague enough it's open to interpretiation yet direct enough the idea is obvious, in this case women who dress showing parts of their body the politician would be harshly criticised and condemned. But The Koran is to be protected from any criticism because it's a holy book.

I condemn the Koran and it's followers on the grounds it preaches racism, genocide, murder, rape and child abuse, amongst several other things.

RahGuzaR: Koran has taught all the humans a code of life, who to treat your parents, who to do business, how to do politics, how to pray, how to treat your neighbours etc, In short Koran has taught us how live a life.
If i do not follow the code of life given to me then its me who should be held responsible for all the wrong doings in life cuz those things were allready forbidden when i was actually doing them.

Islam does not preaches racism rather it tells that every human is equal even if he is not a follower.

Its us who has divided ourselves in casts and creeds.

The things you have mentioned all are misconceptions, not the reality and the teachings of Koran.

orkanen: RahGuzaR:
To me, religions make no sense. For example, if a god created us naked, why does it demand we put on clothes? If the god created sexuality, why does it want to limit it? We have the ability to think, to reason, yet this is a bad thing in most religions. It's like listening to misguided old men who never scored.

Because I generally have more knowledge about both the Bible and the Quran than most followers, I am evil and destined to hell. For a long time, I've professed chapter 86 to be my favourite Quranic chapter. So wrong, it hurts. Included in that chapter is a verse that, in context sounds a bit like "Look, we iz sciency!".

I hope you are capable of seeing that this isn't an attack on you personally, but instead, a friendly nudge to serve as an eye opener. I was so lucky to be raised without any religion, given the choice to seek the meaning of life by myself. I couldn't care less about religion, if not for the fact that all religions I've encountered demand special privileges, imposing on my rights.

orkanen: djdan2:
What are you talking about? Have you ever heard a clear and concise politician? And speaking of politicians, I read the other day the the word Politics is made up of poly, meaning many, and ticks, a blood sucking animal.

djdan2: "Koran has taught all the humans a code of life, who to treat your parents, who to do business, how to do politics, how to pray, how to treat your neighbours etc, In short Koran has taught us how live a life."
You mean the Koran imposes a way of life, forces people to do things and refrain from natural insticts or face sever punishment. Not unlike fascism.

"Islam does not preaches racism rather it tells that every human is equal even if he is not a follower."
Then explain to me these verses:

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disorder, unbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (9:14) - "Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace..."

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

- Please do not tell me these verses are taken out of context, the context is pretty dam clear...

Perdurabo: 'Islamophobic'

Fuck this idea that Islam is immune to scrutiny. Dudes arent a race; Muslims are a religious group. If Catholics are fair game, so are Muslims.

This idea that you have to self-censor your criticisms about someones beliefs is just wrong.

djdan2: The lack of response suggests to me we have converted a couple of Muslims. Welcome to the church of rational thinking, our religion does not brainwash you or kill you for getting raped!

Kaotic_J: I have no misconceptions about islam or any other religion for that matter whatsoever..

I know exactly what islam and every other religion is and i know im to mentally equipped to believe in such absurdities..

orkanen: The only real misconception I can think of about Islam is that it's peaceful, yet the only people holding this belief are Muslims themselves and a couple of leftists.

Reading through, and verifying, websites tells me there are 245 "positive" verses there. Most verses are abrogated in the same chapter, except for 7, which are abrogated in later chapters. Context can be a nasty thing.

There are 527 verses of intolerance towards non-Muslims and 109 verses advocating violence towards non-Muslims, none of these are abrogated.

Montana Rodeo: Right, dudes! People uncritically claiming that religion is peaceful should have their head examined...

Perdurabo: 'should have their head examined..'

Please refrain from talking about heads when a certain religious group are around!

BlueGamerOyon: not even a day passes and he says this "blog is dead".

btw, the word "islamophobic" is extremely propagandized. just enjoy islam for now, playboy. it's only a matter of time till the religion dies.

Perdurabo: rAmen to that brother!

RahGuzaR: "It's only a matter of time till the religion dies"

Well it has not even slightly changed over 14 centuries in terms of book (Quran) and it's teaching, though the followers (muslims) have lost their path.
Islam is a perfect religion and will be till the judgment day for all the mankind.

I always mention this point that please do not judge Islam on the basis of some of the followers who themselves are not aware of true meaning of Islam. People normally refer Islam to those examples they see arpund them.

orkanen: RahGuzaR:
Either we eradicated ourselves as a species, and all religions die, or we find a way to better educate everyone, thereby diminishing all religions.

It was wrong back then and it is still wrong now that the earth is flat, so why make a point of a never changing Quran? Why I mention only one thing wrong is that within Science, you only have to falsify one assumption in a theory to bring it down.

How do you define a perfect religion? Until you can prove that there is a god, Judgement Day is nonsensical. The term Mankind is also nonsensical, as we are just another species inhabiting this earth.

We judge a religion by both its contents and by its followers. In the case of Islam, we see a book filled with commands of violence towards those who do not follow this book. We see the majority of Muslims calling themselves Muslims in name only, not following the pillars of Islam, then we see a minute few who do. The majority are overly eager to object to any attack on their religion's name, but generally silent concerning and towards the minority. Those who do object to the minority, call them "not true followers". Are you aware of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy?

BlueGamerOyon: this century... the 21st century... is far, far different from all the centuries occupied by mankind. in this century, we have something called the internet which allows exchange of vast amounts of information about the world (and even some info on the universe) in a short amount of time.

this plus the advancement of intellectualism and rationalism will crumble islam and all other degrading religions. hence, it's only a matter of time before your religion dies.

be grateful though that you probably won't see islam die out in your lifetime.

and fyi, i don't really care if your book hasn't changed much in the last whatever centuries.