A moral universe? (Page 5)

Nancy
(Post deleted by staff 10 years ago)
Sassy
Sassy: "Religion with all its shortcomings is the main producer of atheists..."

Excellently put and so true, too!
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Stormy
Stormy: I certainly prefer a moral society based on reason and without any religious baggage attached to it.
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Sassy
Sassy: Yes, if you attach religious elements to a society's moral laws, it will only affect the adherents of that particular religion, while the rest will feel alienated and discriminated against.
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Airstream
Airstream: Religion and faith should strictly be a private and not a public matter, because it divides people into various levels of human value (the us-versus-them syndrome). And forced belief is a terrible abomination that constitutes a chain of black spots on humanity's track record. It's the ultimate manifestation of disrespect!
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Tarynn
Tarynn: Well, too many religionists still think that they should use religion to control every aspect of other people's lives. Luckily, most civilised countries have left such fossil attidudes behind by now and instead try to combat those that haven't.
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chesney
chesney: Morality by itself doesn't belong to one particular religion or any set of religious doctrines, but is independent of faith and belief. When religions say that without them, morality will collapse, they are therefore way off the mark, since non-religious people can be just as morally enlightened as their believeing counterparts. Thus, nobody can claim that without my faith, you are an immoral person, but still, I often experience absurd attempts in that direction...
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CoIin
CoIin: ^^^^^ Statistics already make it clear that prison populations are inordinately represented by the religious. Atheists tend to be the least represented, I don't mean in absolute numbers, but in proportion to the percentage of atheists in society as a whole.

Yes, we know correlation does not entail causation, but food for thought nonetheless in the face of relentless pontification from the "enlightened".
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: Well some people find God n religion in prison it doesn't really help with them not re offending, I have never been religious but I always knew the difference between right and wrong.
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CoIin
CoIin: ^^^ Dunno bout that, Lav. There are lots of things I considered wrong say 10 years ago, but no longer do, and vice versa. How about you?

Absolutely morality is as absolute as absolute beauty which is absolutely not very absolute at all in my opinion.
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: Well depends on what you mean if you mean stuff pertaining to morals like lieing, murder, being cruel to people then yes it depends, morality has wide scope and variation in different cultures and countries. But I know what you maybe I shouldn't use the words always but what I should stated that I didn't need religion to give me a moral code as I was growing up

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CoIin
CoIin: Good thing too, eh? If absolute morality involves executing people who work on the Sabbath, women who are not virgins on wedding night, and disobedient children, I'll stick with moral relativity ta very much.

On second thoughts, executing disobedient brats doesn't sound so bad
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: Well that morality is pertaining to religion isnt it, things like that don't conform to our modern day culture at least in the west.

A quick clip around the ear or a ruler over the knuckles maybe a solution to get some of these disobedient back in line. Execution sounds harsh lol but some old skol discipline maybe.
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CoIin
CoIin: Hmm, are we negotiating? Ok then, 50 lashes and that's my final offer
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: lol your harsh task master. mmm I have to check that with my internal moral code I ponder...................

Have you ever been religious colinian?just being nosy
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CoIin
CoIin: Well, I didn't have much choice in my early years. They used to drag me there kicking and screaming. Hard pews, no heating, cmon now!! Only the fairy tales helped to make up for it.

This all stopped when Santa gave me my first switchblade.

Um, how about you?
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: ^^^^ lol sounds riveting

Well I went to Sunday school at 7 once, I vomited and refused to ever go back again I was allergic to it, my body knew before my mind did. I think I stopped believing in Jesus before Santa.

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CoIin
CoIin: ^^ Perhaps you're the daughter of Satan. I saw that vomit reaction in "The Omen"
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CoIin
CoIin: And bad gals drive me wild
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CoIin
CoIin: P,S. At least what Santa has to offer is more, um, "tangible" than that other dude
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: lol no I was not the sister of Damien or the devils daughter, you cheeky devil,

and actually the devil has been demonised he just didnt like humans and felt betrayed by God according to the bible, it was only later that Christians blamed him for this and that lol, Im just playing devil's advocate and if I dont believe God then I obviously dont believe in the devil but I know what you mean so much less judgemental and schizoid compared to God. curious
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CoIin
CoIin: LMAO @ "the devil has been demonized"

just like the apotheosis of God

And blaming all the crap in the world on the devil always sounds kinda lame to me. Unless we accept that Ole Nick is more powerful than YHWH (which I can't see Christians admitting to), then there seems no reason why the BIG MAN doesn't just nuke him to kingdom come.
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: Your telling me about the blame game but its good way to excuse God for his inability to stop anything horrible, evil or tragic in this world.lol old Nick so is Satan and Santa the same person.Ive heard about the conspiracy!!!

The illogical and irrational nature of religion and the holy books, it seems the devil is also used when some religious people forget their religious morals and blame it on the devil. strange
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CoIin
CoIin: I'm with you there, Lav, but I wouldn't draw the rationality line where religion ends; we're all a lot more irrational than we know or care to admit. Yes, even science
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lavendar_star
lavendar_star: very true you are such a reasonable man, we are after all all human ruled by emotions, pleasure, pain and our working of our minds.
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