Did someone say military coup? Koko_Krunch: The U.S. military is being slowly converted into an army of evangelical christian crusaders. Pic and links related: http://rockbeyondbelief.com/2011/03/07/demand-equal-treatment-for-the-armys-non-religious-soldiers/ http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/03/only_christian_soldiers_allowe.php If this trend is not reversed, a military coup seems all but imminent. The evangelicals are authoritarian and absolutist in their dogma, and would see not problem in establishing a Christian theocracy. This is the point in history where we can stop the next big sociopolitical disaster (think WWII, or the Crusades, etc.) but you have to stand up and do something about it. Say "no more" to this bullshit that the Christians are trying to cram down everyone's throat.  Amanda: Extremists may bark, but they won't bite. Their number is limited and the moderates wouldn't allow a coup to happen. But a potential threat should be taken seriously and dealt with accordingly, of course. Malone: A bunch of loudmouths, that's what they are. But I don't like that they have access to a wide range of weapons, though.  StuckInTheSixties: Far be it for Mr. Agnostic here to jump on a religion bandwagon, Koko, but those websites are ANYTHING but objective. They are no more objective than most of the religious points of view seen here in the Religion Forum. Fair is fair. flashie: surely some brainwashing helps the war effort? these kids need somthing more to belive in than geopolitricks and oil when they put their lives on the line in a far away land... a holy war seems like a good enough motivation? Koko_Krunch: 'What kind of chickenshit outfit is this? The US military has been sponsoring evangelical Christian events for the troops, basically subjecting our soldiers to religious propaganda. This past fall, they endorsed an event called "Rock the Fort," in which Christian rock groups, with the support of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, held a large concert on the main parade field of Fort Bragg, in North Carolina. This was clearly a sectarian promotion to a captive audience, and the officers at Fort Bragg knew it. They paid lip service to fair play at the time. "I have taken steps to ensure that no soldier in my command is pressured in any way to attend this event," wrote Helmick, commander of the 18th Airborne Corps and Fort Bragg. Helmick also wrote that Bragg would provide the same opportunity to non-Christian religious groups that want to host similar events. How long do you think it would take for the dishonorable commander to break that promise? Not long at all. Justin Griffith began organizing another event, Rock Beyond Belief, that would be an equivalent opportunity for non-believers on the base. They went through all of the official protocols, got an excellent lineup of speakers (Richard Dawkins, Roy Zimmerman, Dan Barker, Mikey Weinstein), and watched their proposal get approved all the way up the chain of command…until it reached the garrison commander, who reversed all the previous decisions, cancelled any support, tried to get it moved to a lesser venue, imposed arbitrary demands on atheist speakers (such as requiring official statements of intent) that were not required of the Christians, and effectively shut down the event.......' flashie: wow. i cant understand the logic or motivation behind it. they must be smart enough to know you cant turn an athiest into a bible basher? maybe they know sumin i dont... perhaps minds are more susceptible to oaths about jesus being their savior between scrambling from sniper fire up mountains. ill read the links, i never woulda thunk the u.s. army would do that - usual entertainment for the troops wasnt religious preaching im sure. mindlessly: krunch ... are you besieged by a spirit that despises humanity existence .for i have noted in several of your statements your not quite relating to life as tangible .many of your statement's appear to have you saying life is a inanimate quality of being . and as if existence equates to the earth being flat . mindlessly: and are all about disgracing the human race with anything and everything you can dig up and point too ....so..oh i suspect it be silly too mention that them daemonic forces are real with personalities that act out .....how is it suggested oh yeah what is thought and debated in vanity is a waste of time and energy best spent else ....sow here krunch for i do believe i detect a strong aniomsity for my mindlessly face and presence try one of my alias dae-ava ....  davidk14: . Did somebody say military coup? Seriously? You got to be kidding. There is no way that the military command structure would do religions bidding. The military strictly enforces the US Constitution no matter which party is in power or who is president. We have a very strict understanding of the separation of church and state. This is the basis of the creation of this country that no one religion will determine internal or external policy. . StuckInTheSixties: As you say, david, that notion of a coup is pretty silly. And Koko's internet references were pretty obviously advocating against the mixture of religion and government. But the "very strict understanding of the separation of church and state" is anything but a strict understanding. It has been assaulted many times in the history of the USA, with different amounts of success. How many (Republican) politicians have ever scoffed at the idea of "separation of church and state," pointing out that such language doesn't actually exist in the constitution? That separation is assaulted constantly. Remember Ray Moore, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Alabama, who refused remove a monument of the Ten Commandments he had placed in the state courthouse despite orders to do so from a federal judge? (Eventually, the eight other members of the court intervened, unanimously overruled Moore, and ordered the removal of the monument.) The military is not immune to this kins of conduct. Let's take a look at fundamentalist Christian Lieutenant General William G. Boykin, US Army (ret.): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_G._Boykin He has gained notoriety for his Christian Fundamentalist views over the last few years and some public remarks. Boykin is a born-again Christian, who has cast the "War on Terror" in Biblical terms. A Pentagon investigation concluded in 2004 that he had violated regulations by failing to explain these remarks were not made in an official capacity. Boykin achieved widespread media coverage for his statements that appeared to frame the War on Terror in religious terms, first broadcast on NBC News, October 15, 2003.[6] William Arkin,[7] military analyst for NBC-TV News, was the source of the video and audiotapes of Boykin. The following day the Los Angeles Times ran a piece on Boykin. Amongst several quotes, the LA Times article revealed Boykin giving a speech about hunting down Osman Atto in Mogadishu: "He went on CNN and he laughed at us, and he said, 'They'll never get me because Allah will protect me. Allah will protect me.' Well, you know what? I knew that my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol." [8] Boykin later clarified this statement, saying that he was implying that Atto's true "god" was money. Boykin's remarks stirred much anger in the Muslim world; Arab and Muslim organisations within the US were highly critical of the comments and called for his resignation, such as James Zogby, president of the Arab American Institute,[9] and the Council on American-Islamic Relations.[10] Several newspapers, such as Newsweek,[11] carried articles calling for his resignation, while Democrats John Kerry and Joe Lieberman were quick to denounce the remarks. Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman John Warner and Democrat Carl Levin both urged Rumsfeld to launch an investigation.[9] Rep. John Conyers and 26 supporters put forward H. RES. 419 "Condemning religiously intolerant remarks and calling on the President to clearly censure and reassign Lieutenant General Boykin".[12] President George Bush distanced himself from the statements, saying that Boykin didn't "reflect my point of view or the point of view of this administration." [13] Donald Rumsfeld defended Boykin, describing him as "an officer that has an outstanding record in the United States armed forces", and that the War on Terrorism was "not a war against a religion". He also spoke about the right of freedom of speech.[14] Marine General Peter Pace, vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff revealed "how sad [Boykin] was that his comments created the fury they had. He does not see this battle as a battle between religions, he sees this as a battle between good and evil, the evil being the acts of individuals."[15] more ... StuckInTheSixties: Boykin issued a public statement stating, "My comments to Osman Otto in Mogadishu were not referencing his worship of Allah but his worship of money and power; idolatry. He was a corrupt man, not a follower of Islam. My references to Judeo-Christian roots in America or our nation as a Christian nation are historically undeniable."[16] CNN later revealed that several parts of his statement were removed on the advice of Pentagon attorneys. Among the parts removed was Boykin's assertion that "the sensitivities of my job today dictate that further church speeches are inappropriate", and "As a Christian I believe that there is a spiritual war that is continuous as articulated in the Bible. It is not confined to the war of terrorism."[17] Boykin himself then requested an investigation by the inspector general into the allegations.[15] A ten month investigation carried out by the Defense Department later concluded in August 2004 that Boykin had broken three rules in giving the speeches: not clarifying that he gave the remarks in a private capacity; he hadn't received clearance for making the remarks; and that he hadn't declared the reimbursement of travel funds by one of the religious groups hosting the speaking events. However, the report made no comment on the actual remarks made, and little action was taken against Boykin. The three infractions are quite minor, and are rarely prosecuted by officials.[18] The report defended the decision not to comment on Boykin's actual comments for several reasons, primarily because "freedom of expression considerations under the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution apply in this case."[19] Some news commentators, such as Republican Patrick Buchanan, believed that there was nothing wrong in what Boykin said.[20] Others saw the criticism of Boykin as an attack on Christian values in America by the Democratic Party.[21] William Arkin was also accused of taking Boykin out of context. Arkin's impartiality was called into question, since he worked for Greenpeace, Human Rights Watch and the Institute for Policy Studies. Arkin also published his opinions on Boykin without ever having spoken to him.[22][23] The media coverage was also seen by some as being an orchestrated campaign by Islamic admirers defending terrorism and trying to discredit "those who warn of Islamists hijacking and perverting the Muslim faith".[24] On 10 April 2008, Boykin spoke at Epicenter 2008, a conference in Israel hosted by Joel C. Rosenberg. His closing statement made a large round of applause: We as believers have been promised that we will spend an eternity with God. Last Saturday I was doing a men's conference in Fredricksburg, Virginia and I was praying during the worship service and something dawned on me and it was the Holy Spirit speaking to me. And the Holy Spirit said, "this is what I want you to share with My men today", and I'm going to share it with you and this is what it is: One day, we're going to stand before the gates of Heaven. Some of us want to be able to walk up there in a white robe and we want to sing Abba Father and Amazing Grace and we want to say to the Lord, "I worshiped You." But I want you to think about this: Heres the way I want to enter the gates of Heaven. I want to come skidding in there on all fours. I want to be slipping and sliding and I want to hit the gates of heaven with a bang. And when I stand up and I stand before Christ, I want there to be blood on my knees and my elbows. I want to be covered with mud. And I want to be standing there with a ragged breast plate of righteousness. And a spear in my hand. And I want to say, "Look at me, Jesus. I've been in the battle. I've been fighting for you." Ladies and gentlemen, put your armor on and get into battle. God bless you. more ... StuckInTheSixties: I wonder if you remember this, too: USA Today 5/3/2005 9:20 PM Updated 5/4/2005 9:44 AM "Air Force Academy wrestles with alleged religious bias" By Patrick O'Driscoll, USA TODAY DENVER — A Pentagon task force will investigate the religious climate at the Air Force Academy after allegations of anti-Semitism, favoritism for born-again Christian cadets and conversion attempts by evangelicals on the Colorado Springs campus. The investigation, announced Tuesday by acting Air Force Secretary Michael Dominguez, will address the behavior of cadets and the academy's leadership. It comes four days after the group Americans United for Separation of Church and State issued a 14-page report citing instances of alleged religious bias and preferential treatment toward Christians at the academy. A Pentagon statement Tuesday listed various steps already taken by the academy to address concerns of bias, including a mandatory class in religious tolerance for all 4,000 cadets and 5,000 other academy personnel. But the statement also noted that "lingering allegations," including those of Americans United, "are being taken very seriously." The investigation grew out of a survey of cadets and staff last year after another academy controversy: a 2003 scandal in which nearly 150 female cadets alleged that they had been sexually assaulted by fellow cadets in the previous decade. Write-in remarks on religion prompted officials to conduct focus groups during the summer. The academy's superintendent, Lt. Gen. John Rosa, told the school's civilian oversight board last month that those yielded complaints of 55 instances of religious bias in the past five years, including proselytizing by Christians, use of Bible quotes in official e-mail and an ad promoting Jesus in the base newspaper, signed by 200 academy leaders. The Americans United report alleges that non-Christian cadets were harassed by seniors and that Christians were allowed to display crosses in the dorms while cadets were barred from hanging non-religious items. The academy is in Colorado Springs, a hub of evangelical Christian groups including the International Bible Society, The Navigators and Youth with a Mission. Across Interstate 25 from the academy is the headquarters of Focus on the Family, which reaches millions on radio and is active on conservative social and political issues. The most recognizable building on the academy's campus is the chapel, a non-denominational house of worship. The main-floor chapel is for Protestant denominations, which include 60% of Air Force cadets. Rooms downstairs include a chapel for Catholics (30%), a synagogue for Jews (1%), a prayer room for Muslims (less than 1%) and spaces for others. mindlessly: eeee stuck you getting paranoid that your being followed yet .... ah ha ha ha ha ... my sword is the sound of my voice whether you hear it vocally from my writing or from my think talking out loud too the breeze i will no wield no other violence ... my shield masquerades behind the childish ditty of i am rubber you are glued what ever you threw at me bounced off and splattered and stuck all over you ...... mindlessly: time is on my side oh yes it is . only time will tell, and has said onto me , you are ,my time is your's mistress of many of skills , that babs lies as the many minions , sow my mistress of many skills just sow hue know , your alway's on the go . with by me your side we shall for ever roam . davidk14: . Mindless, This thread is about a military coup. What does your last two posts have to do with the thread topic? . mindlessly: yo davidk .... i was letting stuck know i am following him his many way's of schooling minds and his sense of humor and perhaps anwsering a question of his too me ..... here there and every where he goes in here ....... mindlessly: ah ha ha ha ha ha ha yo too hue this morning krunchie ....eek we best be careful some one pitch a itch fit and scream this isn't twit. | Religion Chat Room 19 People Chatting Similar Conversations |