Islam will rule whole world one day (Page 39) ghostgeek: Zanjan, how can you insist that the Loch Ness Monster cannot communicate with us? Have you seen it? Have you spoken to it? This is all just supposition on your part. Please, I beseech you, retain an open mind until all the facts are in. We must give the poor wee beastie a fair hearing before forming a judgement.  CoIin: Sigh! Well, none of the regulars here have ever expected Zanjan to win any prizes for logical thinking... I thought I was perfectly clear in my previous post, but I'll try to be more-than-perfectly clear now, although I suspect everyone else except Zanjan and David spotted the glaring non sequitur immediately. 1. What I Am Saying - David's inference is invalid ---------------------- David's argument takes the form:- Premise : We know little Conclusion : Therefore, we have reason to believe God exists The conclusion in no way follows from the premise. Our ignorance or stupidity or whatever you want to call it does not, in and of itself, offer any warrant for belief in hypothetical entities. The conclusion cannot be inferred from the premise. The inference is invalid. 2. What I Am Not Saying - God doesn't exist --------------------------- David's failure to formulate a valid argument does not imply God (or the Incredible Hulk) does not exist. There may be good arguments, although I'm not aware of any, which give us reason to entertain the possibility that God or the Incredible Hulk exist. David's argument is not one of them. Zanjan - I talk little about, say, cookery on the grounds that I know almost nothing about it and I'm hopelessly inadequate in the kitchen. Perhaps you should consider doing the same with regards logic. Time and time again you clog threads with incoherent rubbish and make yourself look very silly in the process. (Edited by CoIin)  Zanjan: Colin, you were very clear the first time - now you're just over-extending yourself and confusing your gerbil. We choose to know as much as we want; if you want to know something badly enough, neither heaven or hell will get in your way of finding out. Since few have this kind of perseverance and stamina, they settle for less important things. Still, there are *many* unimportant things we don't know - we call that trivia. I bet you didn't know Queen Elizabeth uses Tupperware. I think this is a valid argument against Saran Wrap. Back to topic, did you know Muhammad used to paint His nails red? I think it's odd how many mothers named their kids after Him but didn't paint their boys' nails. "I'm hopelessly inadequate in the kitchen. Perhaps you should consider doing the same with regards logic." You want me to be hopelessly inadequate with logic? Is this not silly? (Edited by Zanjan) CoIin: That makes twice in the last two pages that Zanjan has selectively cropped something I said in order to mislead. 1. "What can we infer about the ontological status of your god, anyone else's god, unicorns, the Loch Ness monster, or your favorite comic-strip superhero from the premise that our knowledge is very limited?" - Colin ... was rendered by Zanjan as ... "What can we infer about the ontological status of your god, anyone else's god, unicorns, the Loch Ness monster, or your favorite comic-strip superhero " 2. "I talk little about, say, cookery on the grounds that I know almost nothing about it and I'm hopelessly inadequate in the kitchen. Perhaps you should consider doing the same with regards logic." - Colin ... was rendered by Zanjan as ... "I'm hopelessly inadequate in the kitchen. Perhaps you should consider doing the same with regards logic." Twice in a row is surely not coincidence. Zanjan's cognitive faculties have always been suspect. Her integrity must now also be questioned. I must ask you, Zanjan, not to misquote myself or other members. It's not nice. Zanjan: I agree, it's no coincidence. 1. This means that your comprehension (of grammar and unwritten understandings) is flawed. 2. It means that I don't waste space with superfluous words. Please choose one of the above. "..... from the premise that our knowledge is very limited....?" ......you can infer that most people are unaware of many things that actually have substance; for instance, that the dishwasher was invented in 1886 by a woman..............but only hotels and restaurants had the right hot water pressure to operate them, which we can blame entirely on plumbers, a strictly shortsighted male profession at the time. After all, you did ask for inferences. Some just happen to make sense. I apologize for my former omission of ellipses but NOT for not being nice. (Edited by Zanjan)  orkanen: And you wonder why I call you dishonest, Zanjan? Quote mining is, by definition, dishonest. Therefore, when you quote mine, like you often do, you are dishonest. It's that simple. If you cared at all for truth, you'd seek it, instead of asserting "truth" whenever you can. Dare admit that you're lying to yourself and others, and you'll feel so much better afterwards. orkanen: Zanjan wrote: This is what Godlessness ultimately leads to. Yes, just look towards Scandinavia, where religiosity is at an all time low. See all the horrors that are created there in the name of atheism. Homicide rates way down, violent crimes, in fact, crime levels in general are way down, equal rights for everyone, women are generally safe to walk alone at night, compared to, say any country in the Middle-East, except Israel. Why is it so? ghostgeek: Given the upwelling of religious fervour the world is experiencing right now, I think it is time for me to invest in the arms industry. Should be a nice little earner. ghostgeek: Chayi claims that Judaism is the only truth, an assertion roundly rejected by Islam. This war of words between two religions has now transmuted into a contest conducted with bombs and rockets, but the message remains the same, "I am right and you are wrong."  davidk14: . Um...sorry but you are wrong. In our world of the 20th Century, Judaism does not force anyone to do anything. On the other hand, Islamic Sharia law is enforced with decapitations and crucifixions to the unbelievers or as they call us...infidels. The Israeli's only want peace. Hamas wants death....to the Jews. This is where your assumption is mistaken. . deuce916: david, do you really think you are the chosen people? I mean, if you're the chosen people & god lets all this happen to you doesn't it make you think that maybe you aren't chosen. Why hasn't your god done anything against hamas? Why do you need missiles if your chosen? ghostgeek: David, I'm feeling overly pedantic tonight so may I point out that we are now living in the 21st Century. In this enlightened day and age we don't just anathematise those we disagree with, we also blow them to smitheeens with the latest weaponry. Now, as you say, Israel may only want peace but it wants that peace to be on its terms. That is not going to happen. The Arabs aren't going anywhere and they have time on their side. I once knew a Palestinian, over thirty years ago. As he said to me, he would countenance nothing short of the total destruction of Israel. Nothing has changed in those thirty years. The Arabs still want the total destruction of Israel and they will continue to want it until it becomes a reality. Chayi may claim that Judaism is the only truth but in this modern world of ours fewer and fewer people are listening. All they can hear are the sound of bombs exploding, which suggests a very different truth. davidk14: . Deuce said: david, do you really think you are the chosen people? David responds: I believe that there are only 14 million Jews on this planet and there are 2.4 billion followers of the Islamic faith. If Jews are not chosen…were screwed. Ghost said: I mean, if you're the chosen people & god lets all this happen to you doesn't it make you think that maybe you aren't chosen. Why hasn't your god done anything against hamas? Why do you need missiles if your chosen? David responds: Jews in recent history have been right up until WW2 were pacifist. They believed God would take care of them. Well we all know how that turned out. Never again will Jews allow others to murder them because they are Jewish. The citizens of Israel know the only way to protect themselves is to actively participate in their countries security. Every able body man and woman are soldiers in Israel, over 65% of the population. In the US, less than 1% of the population are in any way involved with the countries security. Never again. To follow-up on your statement about why God done anything against Hamas. You could ask the same question of why God allows death of children or airplane crashes where hundreds are killed or why there is AIDS or Ebola or killer hurricanes. Perhaps you might suggest why God allowed a meteor to hit the Yucatan 65 million years ago extinguishing the dinosaur species. Ask away. . Ghost said: David, I'm feeling overly pedantic tonight so may I point out that we are now living in the 21st Century. David responds: Brillant. Ghost said: In this enlightened day and age we don't just anathematise those we disagree with, we also blow them to smitheeens with the latest weaponry. Now, as you say, Israel may only want peace but it wants that peace to be on its terms. That is not going to happen. The Arabs aren't going anywhere and they have time on their side. I once knew a Palestinian, over thirty years ago. As he said to me, he would countenance nothing short of the total destruction of Israel. Nothing has changed in those thirty years. The Arabs still want the total destruction of Israel and they will continue to want it until it becomes a reality. David responds: The so called 'Palestinians' rejected the 1948 UN proposal to even give land to Jew and Arab alike. The Arabs flipped the UN off and attacked the State Of Israel. No one thought that the Jews would survive. Well, the Arabs lost that battle as did they lost the battles in the 1950's, '60's, '70's, '80's, '90's, and all the way to present. The Jews have survived and flourished. Israel is a modern democracy heavy with human rights for all of its citizens including the 20% that are non-Jew. The reality is Israel is there to stay. Ghost said: Chayi may claim that Judaism is the only truth but in this modern world of ours fewer and fewer people are listening. All they can hear are the sound of bombs exploding, which suggests a very different truth. David responds: What people are hearing more and more is the genocide that Hamas has intended for the Jews. They do not want to have peace. Israel will need to wiped Hamas out. Notice I said HAMAS...not the Palestinian people. Anyone that supports Hamas supports genocide. . davidk14: . Let's see....hummmm....ahhh....hummmm....ok... Perhaps.., In the most simplistic reality...maybe.... God is energy. All energy and not a life form. Like I said...in a very simplistic form of understanding...from one human to another. I am amazed how simple minded man still is. Yet considering the human history on this planet which is not even a whisper in time, there are those that confirm they know what is going on in the universe where other life forms have existed for perhaps millions of years. It is silly to not have the possibility. 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