"israel" becoming most hated "country" in the world.. (Page 2)

Slaughterin
Slaughterin:
Are you disagreeing with any of the following statements:
1. Russia is allowed to have a certain number of troops in Crimean.
2. Russia did not 'take over' or seize political control of Crimean.

Russia had troops in Crimean. There's no 'Russia left it's borders and took over Crimea'. There wasn't a mass movement of troops into Crimean.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

I'm not sure you understand what is going on over there.

First to answer your questions:

Lump said:

Are you disagreeing with any of the following statement:
1. Russia is allowed to have a certain number of troops in Crimean.

David responds:

There were no Russian Troops in Crimea. It was its own independent sovereign entity. See my last post.

Lump said:

Are you disagreeing with any of the following statement:
2. Russia did not 'take over' or seize political control of Crimean.

David responds:

Russia 'did' take over and seize political control of Crimea.

Lump said:

Russia had troops in Crimean. There's no 'Russia left it's borders and took over Crimea'. There wasn't a mass movement of troops into Crimean.

David responds:

"The Crimia was transferred to the Ukraine from Moscow in 1954 while it was part of the USSR.

Reports claimed 2,000 Russian soldiers had landed in the region.

Putin is said to have agreed and stressed military exercises in the area had been planned before the current situation.

Russian president Vladimir Putin is said to have 150,000 troops, fighter jets and tanks on exercises close to the Ukrainian border.

Reports claimed 2,000 Russian soldiers had landed in the region."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/ukraine-news-russia-invades-crimea-3194129

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I have read other reports where up to 20,000 Russian forces had invaded Crimia. And now, Putin has a huge force ready to invade Ukraine proper.

Hope you are not rooting for Putin...are you?

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Slaughterin
Slaughterin:
I do have an understanding on what is going on over there. Of course there will be the information that will not be known by the general public.

1. Your statement: "There were no Russian Troops in Crimea. It was its own independent sovereign entity. See my last post."

Correction: Russian troops were always in Crimea. You can research the naval base at Sevastopo.

2. Your statement: Russia 'did' take over and seize political control of Crimea."

Correction: Crimea's political leaders are still the same to my knowledge. There was no pro-Russian coup or move by Russia to change/seize the government..that was what happened in Ukraine with a pro-Western coup (conveniently timed). There was a referendum that ended in showing they favour Russia. This should've be looked into and repeated with neutral foreign overseers/observers. It's no secret that the majority in Crimea are proRussian considering their heritage. The maintenance of military presence by Russia in Crimea can't be compared to the US moving into Mexico (or Iran/Afghanistan -hostility wise).

3. Your statement: "I have read other reports where up to 20,000 Russian forces had invaded Crimia. And now, Putin has a huge force ready to invade Ukraine proper."

Correction: There is no signal or statements made that Russia has intensions of invading parts of Ukraine. I'm not sure where you got your 'reports' or if you checked to see if they are official or another opinion blog that you're fond of. I've not read any released report on 'Putin has a huge force ready to invade Ukraine proper'.

4. Your statement:"Hope you are not rooting for Putin...are you?"

Answer: I'm not rooting for anyone (yes, including the West). It is foolish to be 'rooting' for any side at the moment. I prefer to have an unbiased view of the situation and keep informed about both sides of the issue. Being devoid of emotionally based opinions and taking things as they are in politics is a good way to go. Try it. Instead of this "Putin is an ebil ebil little man" chant. Politicians tend to be. The current Ukraine government, the interim government shouldn't be making any decisions until a general election.
There're no saints in politics, everyone is after their own agenda. At least with Putin you know what you're up against. Ukraine politics is a mess, always some strike, some disagreement with their government, if Crimea wants to move towards Russia I'd let them go and observe how it goes for them. For now egos will be posturing on both sides and I'm more interesting on seeing how this develops esp. with the sanction threats. If Russia decides to look towards Asia/China then impose its own sanctions on the West/Europe what will take place. How far is everyone willing to go for Crimean (whose say is going unnoticed). Best not to forget how all this started to get nasty.
(Edited by Slaughterin)
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The13th
The13th: My point is: the people of Crimea has no confidence in existing Ukraine government. This goes a long way in telling the rest of the world how trustworthy this Ukraine government is.
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dave3974
dave3974: there is no difference between Kosovo and Ukraine apart from the fact that the usa backed Kosovo, god luck to the Russians who live there , who never should have been part of a made up country like Ukraine ---- it is a clue however that if the us is up to no good dave14 will be there in support
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Slaughterin
Slaughterin: Dave3974, it seems comical how this situation has developed with all the hypocrisy. If we review the actions of the US and its allies in the past (and present) and how their own current 'stern, holy' words can be used against those actions, it's almost 'pot and kettle'.
The US constantly place themselves in this infallible light but ah shh don't point that out or you'll be viewed as an anti-american fascist who supports the evil Soviets.
Putin's reaction was predictable. He has that old, stubborn soviet mentality, even so, this escalation could've been prevented. As others before it
(Edited by Slaughterin)
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Slaughterin said:

Putin's reaction was predictable. He has that old, stubborn soviet mentality, even so, this escalation could've been prevented. As others before it.

DavidK responds:

The USA knew Putin's takeover was imminent. What could the current US administration have done to prevent the annexation by force of Crimea?

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Slaughterin
Slaughterin:
Davidk, my statement was in regards to the EU's interference, when this was in its beginning stages. The Ukraine government agreed to choose Russia over the EU. Your response wouldn't be in line with that, but I'll clarify my statement.
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davidk14
davidk14: .

I understand, yet my question still stands.

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Slaughterin
Slaughterin:
Your question:
"The USA knew Putin's takeover was imminent. What could the current US administration have done to prevent the annexation by force of Crimea?"

-You are claiming that the US had a forethought that Crimea would've gone Pro-Russia or that by supporting a pro-West coup to take over the government in Ukraine would've caused Russia to react in Crimea.
-You are claiming that the referendum held in Crimea was done by force on the people.
-You are claiming that the annexation was done by force (on Crimea) by Russia.

Sort out your claims before looking for an answer to your loaded question.
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dave3974
dave3974: putins action was reasonable and restrained , let us move on from the cold war politics and abuse from fox news
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Please. Putin was reasonable? You have got to be kidding. The fact remains that Russia invaded Crimea which was a part of Ukraine. It would be like if Mexico invaded New Mexico because they speak a lot of Spanish. Seriously. Putin signed a document 'annexing' Crimea.

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dave3974
dave3974: after the majority overwhelmingly voted to rejoin Russia-can you imagine the mayhem if it had been trigger happy americans instead of Russian troops
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Voting?

You actually think the voting was...fair? Honest? With international observers? Putin just decided to move into Crimea because the folks there decided they wanted to be Russian? How about them MOVING to Russia. Now that would have been something.

You make me laugh.



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dave3974
dave3974: why should they move, they live there and they are already in Russia ---
(Edited by dave3974)
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davidk14
davidk14: .

The U.S.S.R broke up and the Ukraine became an independent and sovereign country as it wanted to be. Now you say, since Putin says they want to be part of Russia that they actually want to be? Seriously? The voting was rigged and everyone knows it. In one part of the country, more votes were counted than the actual population of men, women and children combined. Oh...that's right..it's Bush's fault. Sorry, I forgot about him.

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Slaughterin
Slaughterin:
Again. It's not far-fetch that the Crimean referendum is legit. Considering that the majority are Russian decent and pro-Russian. Added to this Ukraine's pro-Russian government was overthrown by a coup. ADDED to this Ukraine faces economic troubles with crisis. Who will want to stick with a weakening country instead of going under one that presents itself as stronger?
It isn't all of Ukraine but the Crimean part that wishes to go under Russia.
Putin wants Crimean and the West doesn't want Russia to have Crimean for its strategic location as a military position. It's not about what 'Crimean wants', for the US/UK/EU/Russia/Nato, but Putin has a greater influence there.
(Edited by Slaughterin)
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dave3974
dave3974: exactly slau , there is a genuine desire to be part of Russia and rectify the mistake of the past , the fox news perspective of Russia as always the bad guy belongs in the cold war comic book days .
I seem to recall a dodgy election that got you saddled with bush though

We have a president who was selected rather than elected. He stole the presidency through family ties, arrogance and intimidation, employing Republican operatives to exercise the tactics of voter fraud by disenfranchising thousands of blacks, elderly Jews and other minorities.
~ Barbra Streisand

It is a bit rich a bush fan being a critic of Putin
(Edited by dave3974)
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davidk14
davidk14: .

We currently have a president that was elected because of his race.

Davidk14

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Slaughterin
Slaughterin:
At least you admit that your source is 'Davidk14' making your statement an opinion and not something that should be considered seriously.
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dave3974
dave3974: and that he was a better candidate
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davidk14
davidk14: .

Obama is a complete failure. We are deeper in debt, our economy is in shambles and we are about to loose the dollar as the worlds reserve currency since it ain't worth nothing. If and when this happens, the US will go in a depression....not resession....depression....and Obama will be the cause since they so far have borrowed trillions on trillions on trillions of dollars just in the past 5 years, twice what Bush borrowed. The debt was at 9 trillion when he came to power and now the debt is 17+ trillion and they are printing billions and billions every month just to pay the current bills. By 2018, the debt will reach 20 trillion. Unfunded liabilities have shot up to 125 trillion and will increase to 157 trillion in just 4 years.

Our foreign affairs are in shambles as well. Our military is being striped.

Please..Obama will go down as the worse president in US history.

Take a look at these numbers....they will shock you. Note that these numbers come from the CBO, Treasury and Federal Reserve. YOU WILL BE SHOCKED!!!

And this is Obama's economy...do not even try to blame Bush....

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

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oneamazingworld
oneamazingworld: Now the Bedouin s are getting bulldozed
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dave3974
dave3974: your expenditure on your military is dragging you down the same way as it did soviet Russia , you would be even worse off if Obama had not been elected , history will be a lot kinder on him than bush
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davidk14
davidk14: .

The drag on the US economy is not the military which is 20% nor the actual running of the government which is 20%. It is the entitlements which suck 60% of all revenues. Included with these numbers is interest on the debt which is about 8% or $500B per year.

We all know what happened after WW1 when he US went down the pacifist road and reduced military expenditures to almost nothing. When WW2 broke out, we were screwed. It took the entire population of the US to join together and move the economy from a peace time economy to a war time economy. Instead of building cars, GM was building tanks. Instead of Boeing building civilian aircraft, they built fighters and bombers. Every segment of the economy was 1st for the war machine whether it be food, clothing, material.

The civilian population went on food cards and gas rationing. The entire population was turned into a fighting force starting with production, to distribution, to combat.

The world is in a precarious position where Putin knows we are weak and taking advantage. Iran has lied......yes lied....to the US about its intentions about nuclear weapons and continues to develop the bomb even though they say they are not. Putin said he would not go into Giorgia...and he did. He said they would not go into Crimea and he did. Now he says he will not go into Ukraine yet there is (today) a massive build up on the border of 10's of thousands of troops. And the US with this administration sits on its hands and reduces the military to pre-1940 levels. You have got to be kidding.


Recently, this administration has decided to eliminate the Tomahawk Cruise missile, the Hellfire missile and the air force Warthog aircraft. Are they nuts????

http://www.businessinsider.com/death-of-tomahawk-and-hellfire-missile-program-2014-3


These are weapons that keep US troops out of harms way. US forces are being reduced to unheard of levels. The company, the only company, that refurbished and built our front line tanks....has been closed.

It's not the military that is dragging us down, it is the progressive liberals that believe in holding hands and singing kumbaya around the campfire believing that the world just needs a little hug.

Right.

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