BUSH DID IT (Page 12)

davesdatahut: Bush most certainly did NOT do better than Obama. Bush left Obama with two wars that were ineptly prosecuted and an economy in free-fall. Not that the economic troubles were Bush's fault. But his policy advisers failed spectacularly in seeing that coming (and it was entirely predictable). Considering that we are now largely out of those two messes and the economy is in somewhat better shape, which some recent good news, it is hard to say, by almost any measure, that Obama has done worse that Bush.
Some suggest that the Affordable Care Act will ruin America. This view has yet to be justified by reality.
Oh, and Bin Laden was smoked out and dispatched under Obama's watch. Just for the record.

davidk14: .

davesdatahut...you got to be kidding !

Obama raised the debt to 17 trillion from 9 trillion when he got in...the unfunded liabilities are well over 100 trillion...on Obamas watch.

Obamacare is a dismal failure.

The Veterans Admin is is the worst shape it has ever been in. Vets on wait lists for months to years? This is what we are looking forward to with Obamacare...another failed government program as screwed up and worse than AmTrack.

The Justice Department is not doing its job.

The IRS is out of control.

The INS and ICE are out of control. Over 400,000 illegal aliens have crossed into the US just in the last few months and no one was turned away. Just today a trail derailed in S Mexico carrying thousands of illegals headed towards the US border. Over 50,000 of the 400,000 are unaccompanied minors who have been dumped by the cartels onto US soil, of which many have illnesses.

You have got to be kidding.

The military is in shambles.

The economy is on the edge of destruction. We are still printing around 80 billion a month to pay bills. WTF!

Our credit rating has been downsized twice.

The middle east is about to explode. ISIS now has nuclear fuel it captured which can be used for dirty bombs. These terrorists have filled the vacuum left by the US in Iraq. And you think it was a good thing to pull out early?

Afganistan is a dismal failure since Obama came into power.

NKorea is out of control.

Syria is out of control.

The Ukraine is out of control.

This administration has lower ratings than Bush and you think he's done an ok job?

Are you blind or just ignorant?

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chronology: davidk14. It all depends on which statistics you accept, often there are a few or more giving differing rankings for the same poll. On Infrastructure the U.S. can look pretty poor in world ranking, but like one observer said; 'there is a difference between judging roads in a small compact nation like Ireland, and a vast Republic like America with deserts, great plains and salt flats'. Guess who has better roads? hey it's Ireland, if you judge American Roads in New Mexico and Nevada. Same with Broadband availability, guess who has the best Broadband? Germany or America? well yes a small town in Alaska may not have Broadband yet, but that is not the same as Hamburg is it?

America is never likely to rank very high again on most such statistics unless she builds German Autobahns across vast stretches of New Mexico no body drives across, the dirt roads in places there will always see to it America is down the list.

One statistic is problematic tho, and that is the slow growth or no growth in living standards of working families in America. Wages are just not keeping up with costs, and the gap between rich and working families grows almost weekly.

JFK said something like; 'so long as any American is made to feel like a second class citizen, or somewhat a 'less than other' citizen we have not finished our work in Civil Rights'.

davidk14: .



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davesdatahut: David....you forgot to blame the downfall of the Ottoman Empire on Obama.
Are you blind? Or just ignorant???

Now that we have that outta the way. Let us get back to the statement at hand : that Bush was a worse president than Obama. Not that Obama has been a wonderful president. Just that Bush was worse.
So let's dissect your maniacal, Palin-esque rant, with the sub-context being whether Bush was better than Obama. I have put your words in quotes:
1. "Obama raised the debt to 17 trillion from 9 trillion when he got in...the unfunded liabilities are well over 100 trillion...on Obamas watch."
The debt rose under Bush almost 100 percent, from $5.6 trillion to $10 trillion. It has risen under Obama by a smaller percent. Is this good? Absolutely not. But the perspective must be noted because we are comparing Bush to Obama.
2. "Obamacare is a dismal failure."
Define dismal failure. It's only been in place for what, less than a year?
3. "The Veterans Admin is is the worst shape it has ever been in. Vets on wait lists for months to years? This is what we are looking forward to with Obamacare...another failed government program as screwed up and worse than AmTrack."
First off, it's Amtrak, not AmTrack. Oi.
Second, how do you conclude that the VA is in worse shape than ever? Define worse than ever. And what does this have to do with Obamacare?
4. "The Justice Department is not doing its job."
Define 'not doing its job.'
5. "The IRS is out of control."
Define 'out of control.'
6. "The INS and ICE are out of control. Over 400,000 illegal aliens have crossed into the US just in the last few months and no one was turned away. Just today a trail derailed in S Mexico carrying thousands of illegals headed towards the US border. Over 50,000 of the 400,000 are unaccompanied minors who have been dumped by the cartels onto US soil, of which many have illnesses."
What? 400,000 in the last few months? Really? 400,000? Where does this come from? I read today that 57,000 crossed in the last nine months. Besides, how does this translate into INS and ICE being 'out of control.' Aren't they coming here because of the drug gangs in their home countries are scaring them outta town? (Perhaps if we legalize drugs here, this will stop, but I digress.)
6. "The military is in shambles."
Define 'in shambles.' And is this more because of Bush's two wars or Obama's decision to extricate us from same?
7. "The economy is on the edge of destruction. We are still printing around 80 billion a month to pay bills. WTF!"
Define 'on the edge of destruction.' And compare it how it was when Bush left office. No doubt we are not going great guns and the wealth gap is getting dangerously wide. But didn't I hear something about 200,000-plus jobs created in the last couple of months? And, last I looked, there aren't Obamavilles set up on the Washington Mall. (see The Great Depression for that reference.)
8. "Our credit rating has been downsized twice."
Why do you think that is? Is that more the fault of Congress failing to agree on debt reduction, its hands tied by the wacko hard right? Or is it Obama's fault?
10. "The middle east is about to explode. ISIS now has nuclear fuel it captured which can be used for dirty bombs. These terrorists have filled the vacuum left by the US in Iraq. And you think it was a good thing to pull out early?"
I don't think it was a good idea. I think it was an OUTSTANDING idea to pull out AFTER 10 FUCKING YEARS, YES! Praise Obama for getting us outta there after the inept prosecution of those wars under Bush, and telling those clowns to fight it out amongst themselves. If you think we should go back in, well, by all means, David, load up your rifle, sign up and be the first one to march into Mosul!
And, where are you getting this information that ISIS now has nuclear fuel?
11. "Afghanistan is a dismal failure since Obama came into power."
Don't you mean a dismal failure since the Bush administration installed Karzai?
12. "NKorea is out of control."
So are you. What does this have to do with Obama?
13. "Syria is out of control."
So are you. The mess in that country is Obama's fault? We should be over there militarily, too?
14. "The Ukraine is out of control."
Gotta give you this one. Ukraine's problems are Obama's fault. He never should have been left alone to count those ballots for Yanukovych.
But then again, he also is to blame for the awful performance of the Brazilian soccer team against Germany. Not to mention this goddamn hangnail I have on the little toe of my left foot. I CANNOT get the thing out! Shit shit shit. If only we still had Bush. He would bomb my hangnail!
Obama sucks.

David, are you blind or did one of those illegal aliens sell you some bad weed?

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chronology: davedatahut. You left out a statistic that matters to millions of Americans every day. 'How much did the minimum wage increase from 2000 to 2009 and how much has it risen from 2009 to today'?

The U.S. Economy in 2007 was not in 'Freefall' it was vanishing down a 'Black Hole'.

I will never forget a statistic that shocked many folks in England in 2007. The per capita worth of the U.S. Economy fell below that of England. This was the first time since the Reign of Victoria that the U.S. had been in such a position. There was no 'breast beating' about this in England, just surprise the U.S. had fell into such an alarming decline. What was really odd is that the American Media said nothing about the situation.

The U.S. is back there ahead of England and has been since a year or so after Mr Obama was elected, and folks are happy for your success. But that was a really creepy moment in American economic history that most folks in America never even noticed.

davesdatahut: Chron, for sure... 2008 was the point at which the US economy was teetering on the edge, and threatening to take the world down with it. That was the point at which many economists said we could have slid into a worldwide depression. You can agree or dispute the means used to pull us away from the brink, used in the last days of the Bush administration and the first days of the Obama administration. It also is entirely correct to say the US still has serious structural flaws in its economy and a scary national debt issue that remains unresolved. But people who say the economy is 'on the edge of destruction,' or is no better than it was when Bush left, are bleating pure poppycock, nonsense, fantasy, twaddle - whatever word you want to use.

orangemoon8: Obama ran up 8 trillion in debt in 6 yrs, compared to over 200 yrs for everyone else. What the hell is Obama doing?.....he is really trying to 'fundamentally transform America"......Into what?. This so called constitutional lawyer needs to stop it. Enough of this moron already.

davesdatahut: Orange, what was the debt money spent on?

orangemoon8: Let's see.......Obamacare for one, running up medicaid, It's starts in the Senate, how legal is that?......ohhh that's right it isn't. he has no constututional authority to do this whatsoever. If it goes away, how mant Trillions is it gonna save?

davidk14: .

dave...what is debt money spent on?

The US has bills to pay just like you and me.

The big three for the US is...

1) Government (approx. 20% of the annual debt)
2) Military (approx. 20% of the annual debt)
3) Social (Medicare,Medicaid, Social Security and approx. 60% if the annual debt)

So with those three, it equals 100%.

Unfortunately, we only collect 60% in taxes.

So we need to borrow 40% to pay the bills

That 40% equals $80,000,000 per month that needs to be borrowed (or printed) to meet paying the bills.

Now, what is really messed up is this...

The US government has promised to pay for services in the future however, after all the tax money is collected, the government will owe $150,000,000,000 in liabilities that are unfunded. It is only going to get worst unless the US reduces it's social programs....significantly.

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davesdatahut: Just curious what answers I would get. Our national debt is a major problem. This is not in dispute, at least not among most economists and other experts.
On the other hand, a lot of that money was spent pulling the economy away from the cliff that it stood on in 2008. Economist generally agree that this was a wise idea, as the risk off the economy going off the cliff and the financial markets seizing up was too big.
We can debate whether the federal government should have bailed out the banks and the auto industry. But the prospects of not doing that were very dangerous.

davidk14: .

Orange said:

Obama ran up 8 trillion in debt in 6 yrs, compared to over 200 yrs for everyone else.

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davesdatahut said:

"...On the other hand, a lot of that money was spent pulling the economy away from the cliff that it stood on in 2008."



Davidk14 responds:

Ok...let's assume that bailing out the banks and auto industry and the stimulus packages were the right things to do.

That cost $1 Trillion.

Perhaps we can write off another $1 Trillion on the 'wars' in Afghanistan and Iraq.

That still leaves $6 Trillion over-run in spending by this administration.

Poor track record for sure.

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orangemoon8: Davek14...the bailouts of the banks and all were not the right thing to do. Everyone that was bailed out, took that money speculated on Oil, and the Currency market, in essence we got hit twice, then they paid us back with our own interest payments, that would be $2 trillion if not more. We could even be up to $10 trillion, after we get done relocating all of these illegal immigrants. For sure a poor track record.

davidk14: .

What scares me is the future we are headed. I probably won't be around when it hits the fan.

We owe $17 trillion and owe about a trillion a year for the next ten years.

So in ten years we owe $27 trillion.

Today's unfunded liabilities are about $150 trillion and in ten years...well over $250 trillion.

I have read that it will take ten years just to balance the budget if we take serious to reduce social programs which currently needs 60% of all government payouts.

We borrow so much money that to balance the budget we would need to disband the military, and all government agencies to just pay Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security....and that is just to balance the budget.

So...we need a military and we need government. The social programs will need to get the axe.

And no one has the balls.

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orangemoon8: Or someone has to grow a set....lol

davesdatahut: What programs would you cut, David?

dave3974: OVERSPENDING ON THE MILITARY WRECKED THE SOVIET SYSTEM

wayne elliott: Speaking of programs - just saw an interesting doco on renewable energy slated as "the next big cash cow." China is to build 300 nuclear reactors that have been modified so that meltdown is not an issue. They are already churning out electric cars and claim it will be a trillion dollar industry in the next decade or so.

This sort of program would be a huge boon to the US - although I read somewhere that a program for electric cars was crushed by the government in the interest of the fossil fuel business and the power it weilds. Imagine what could have been achieved if this was the policy instead of war.

davesdatahut: If only car makers could figure out a way to produce efficient electric vehicles at a price most people could afford. Or perhaps the right question is why they don't? Imagine how much less dependent we would be on foreign oil and how much less we would have to get involved in the Middle East craziness?

lori100: I bet they have the tech to do it now.....it would destroy the oil industry.....and the violence is encouraged and supported....it is the agenda....

lori100: No war or oil industry is the last thing they want......------------------
"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes''. - Benjamin Disraeli

davidk14: .

"They" are like the tobacco companies. They will sell their product until no one wants it. Both products are addictive. There are alternatives but until the alternatives are better, the addiction will continue.

I agree with dave ( scary ) that a great electric car would sell if it had a 400-500 mile range with a fast recharge (minutes) or perhaps a combined electric / hydrogen fuel system. I would buy one.

And....I agree with lori ( REAL Scarry ) No war or oil industry is the last thing they want...at this time...It's just not profitable yet to mass produce no gasoline vehicles. Imagine no jet fuel but squirrels.

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lori100: David , I'll have you believing in aliens yet.....

davidk14: .

I believe in life on other planets. It's just that these planets are so far away that the technology to travel comfortably in space and time would mean the aliens would be so far advanced that we would be like ants to the boot. The closest star to earth is something like 4 light years away....or 80,000 years to travel without traveling faster than the speed of light (ie: Cosmos 2014..and a great program series I watched on Netflicks.

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