Potential US and Allies Failure in Iraq (Page 3) duncan124: It has a lot to do with terrorism. The owner of the laptop etc will say in court that he brought it in good faith and so it was not his fault that it started to smoke. He does n't smoke himself........... It is a question of whose fault is it. The US and Russia could argue that it was now a national fault and thus excuse any deaths caused by counter measures as immaterial. The USA and Vauxhall have both taken legal action to stop the crime. What is the next step??? duncan124: I think the terror-in-the-tablet is all to do with the Internet Service Provider and the Govt unemployment services who are very likely to have ideas about limiting peoples computer use in private. Google spys on people all the time through all possible means and it is a looser. In terms of terror the UK Govts relationship with the internet seems to be the key. That is what anti terror organizations look for. Not the means to make bombs but the tell tale ideas that are harmful. The UK Govt thinks that Online means looking into everyones private affairs while the US thinks online means freedom of information about the Govts actions everywhere including local Govt. It is obvious that the UK Govt and its employees have not got their ideas in order. The same story about dangerous computers surfaced just before the NSA spy scandal story did in the USA. duncan124: Bearing in mind all UK Passports now have an electronic component in them which is activated when someone tries to use the passport--and all the Govt computers are linked and made aware when someone does leave the country it seems like a nightmare for the UK Govt.  ghostgeek: Iraq has been a monumental screwup on somebody's part but I doubt anybody is going to come forward to take the blame.  davidk14: . The blame should go to the morons that actually told the bad guys..... the day and time we were going to leave "their" sandbox. . davidk14: . Just had a thought about this mess.... Perhaps we should have learned something from the last generation. Once we WON the wars in Europe and the Pacific, we have had military bases in those countries for about 70 years. Also, we still have troops in SKorea for 60 years. Look how those countries (Japan, Germany, SKorea, now all economic powerhouses) turned out. Not to bad...eh? Perhaps we should have left a presence in Iraq and Afghanistan for a few decades to breed out the negative nasty people. Hell, even Moses led the Jews from Egypt around the desert for 40 years to weed out the negative nasty people before taking them to Israel. . (Edited by davidk14)  lori100: This tells a story....------------------------Gen. Wesley Clark-------"Ten days post-9/11, he visited Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. They met at the Pentagon. "No one will tell us where or when to bomb", he was told. Military commanders said Iraq will be attacked. "I walked out of there pretty upset," said Clark. On a second visit, he learned more. He was told plans were to "destroy the governments in seven countries." Besides Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan, and Iran would be targeted. He knew a decade earlier. In 1991, he wore one star. He visited Under Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz. He did so at the Pentagon. They met after Operation Desert Storm. He was stunned by what he heard. America intended multiple premeditated wars. Policymakers want the Middle East destabilized. They want it redrawn. They want it turned upside down. They want unchallenged US control. They want America's military might used destructively. They want it used "to start wars and change governments. It's not to deter conflicts," said Clark. It's not about liberation and spreading democracy. Wolfowitz said "we should have gotten rid of Saddam Hussein....But one thing we did learn. We can use our military anywhere in the Middle East and the Soviets won't stop us." "And we've got about five or 10 years to clean out those old Soviet client regimes." He named Syria, Iran, and Iraq. He suggested other countries. He called multiple wars essential "before the next great superpower comes along to challenge us." http://www.rense.com/general96/general.html davidk14: . Lori...You should know better....General Clark is a ideologue, liberal, progressive buffoon. . duncan124: Its war against Camerons workers the papers are really saying. They are really not nice people and are a scare to everyone.  Outbackjack: Bush,Blair and Howard started all this with the invasion of Iraq in 2003.They all need to be sent to Hague immediately for war crimes. Now we are told that a mob called I.S.I.S are beheading people and we need to go back in and stop them. What they really mean is that I.S.I.S are taking over Western controlled oil wells and they want our taxpayer dollars to fund the taking back of them to help corporate interests paid for with more Iraqi blood. We had John McCain a year ago saying he hope that the Islamists overthrow Assad of Syria.Now we have the same John McCain backing Assad to defeat the Islamists. BUT WAIT IT GETS EVEN CRAZIER!!!! Obama authorises the backing of the Kurds in Northern Iraq to defeat I.S.I.S. Hang on. Arent there terrorist organisations in Northern Iraq? Yes they are called the Kurdistan Workers Party and are classified by the U.S as a terrorist organisation. Therefore the most inconvenient fact swept under the table is the fact that the U.S government is actively sponsoring a terrorist organisation. Outbackjack: Our Prime minister Abbott of Australia is just a running dog for U.S industrial complex/ corporations.He was a cabinet minister when the 2003 war was declared and he is the same spineless lackey for imperialism now. (Post deleted by staff ) Outbackjack: In reference to the spam posted above. I had a friend who bought a ute from the Great wall company.It looked good ran well but it was so uncomfortable to drive in that after an hour you had a sore arse.So in Australian terms in the bush it was as much use as tits on a bull. My mate reckoned it was well named as it was like sitting on the great wall of China.  briansmythe: Has ay one ever thought expt a few that the US has given Aid money to Middle eastern Countrys Billons annualy , Have done for decades , For there signing peace deals not to invade Isreal , Like how they spend the Money like Iraq well isn't it up to them, , But then people turn around and blame the US for supposedly secretly funding them and starting it all , No its on them and Isis isn't modelled of the Consitution of the USA  (Edited by briansmythe) briansmythe: Ha yeah good one Outback spineless lackey to the US , how do you think the world works, looking back on it Howard was the best PM were had for years , way way better than the spineless lackeys that came after him  chronology: brien, what people always forget about the Iraq Liberation in 2003 that Mr Bush started, was that the U.S. had tens of thousands of Servicemen and women stuck on Iraq's boarders, they had been there since the U.S. Liberation of Kuwait in 1991. The Pentagon could not leave them there for ever, the local Muslim population were beginning to accuse the U.S. of 'occupying' what they call the 'sacred lands of Islam' so what the heck else could the U.S. do? If America just packed it's bags and left the boarders of Iraq then the lands there would have erupted in war within hours of the last America Peace Keepers leaving. And we all know how those countries fight wars, remember Iran and Iraq? Nerve Gas, teenagers running in front of Tanks and jumping on land mines to become 'martyrs for Islam' . The U.S. actually saved millions of lives by Liberating Iraq in 2003. But yes, you can agree that the American paid a high sacrifice in terms of lives of their loved ones lost, and millions of dollars spent saving the region. If you think Iraq is struggling now imagine what would have happened if it was invaded by Iran if the U.S. had just packed it's bags and left. But yes, we should always remember the sacrifice of Americans in that troubled region. You would think the super rich Oil countries in the region who have benefited from American Peace Keeping efforts would at least consider paying some kind of financial contribution to the U.S. especially to American families who lost loved ones there. briansmythe: Yeah I remember it all when It happened chronno I didn't think the US could do much else I must of missed all these protests that people say was happening, Ive changed my mind a few times since But it Happened nothing any one can do about , hee swine was never happy about it , Turkey is going after the Kurds again , They put up a good fight agaist ISIS , but there never had a place in the Mid east chronology: People forget what a terrible state that Region was in in 2003, if America had just left the place would have spiralled into another 'death orgy' with millions dead all round. Unfortunately brien, there are huge reserves of oil that can make people fabulously rich, and people over there will kill each other for that wealth. America is the only country that can keep the peace there. The Anti War crowd cannot get it into their heads that without America there would have been just chaos there. How would they like to pay 40 dollars a gallon at the pumps? briansmythe: Yeah Im afraid Oil plays into it a lot chronno, And what a lot of people forget , Is its western tecknolagy that discovered the Oil and gave them the means to get out of the ground, then you have people who say yeah but the money destroyed the Place , LOL I donno dammed if you do dammed if you don't , that's how it seems to me sometimes, chronology: True Brien. But thanks to the sacrifices of American boys and girls, and thanks to the generosity of American Taxpayers who paid the costs, and the long suffering Law Makers in Washington, the world avoided a major crisis back in 2003. We can speculate what would have happened if Americans lost their nerve and just walked out of the crisis with the region. There would have been a mad scramble by countries to carve up Iraq and plunder her oil, and who knows how the Iraqi people would have suffered after years of sanctions and even more conquest by neighbours out to grab oil fields. Thank God the American people stepped up to the plate and shouldered responsibilty for solving the crisis. Like you say Brien, America was 'damned if it did and damned if it didn't' save Iraq. Like I keep trying to explain to people, American boys and girls had been stuck on the boarders of Iraq for over ten years. If they left and went home, Iraq would have looked like feeding time in the Vulture House at the zoo as rival nations swarmed over her oil wells. If America liberated Iraq then there would be criticism of that too. briansmythe: sorry i must of been delusional , there for awhile Lorie was right all along , notothing to do with progressive whatevers | Politics Chat Room 65 People Chatting Similar Conversations |