davidk14: .This is what we get for supporting them...not democracy, but Sharia Law....

davidk14: .


Egypt's Islamists secure 75 percent of parliament
Published January 21, 2012
| Associated Press

CAIRO – Final results on Saturday showed that Islamist parties won nearly three-quarters of the seats in parliament in Egypt's first elections since the ouster of authoritarian president Hosni Mubarak, according to election officials and political groups.

The Islamist domination of Egypt's parliament has worried liberals and even some conservatives about the religious tone of the new legislature, which will be tasked with forming a committee to write a new constitution. Overseeing the process will be the country's Mubarak-era military generals, who are still in charge.

A coalition led by the fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood won 47 percent, or 235 seats in the 498-seat parliament. The ultraconservative Al-Nour Party was second with 25 percent, or 125 seats.
The Salifi Al-Nour, which was the biggest surprise of the vote, wants to impose strict Islamic law in Egypt, while the more moderate Brotherhood, the country's best-known and organized party, has said publicly that it does not seek to force its views about an appropriate Islamic lifestyle on Egyptians.



Can you say Sharia?

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Sarcastic Dots: They were democratically elected. It's a democracy.

One Bar: Good point, Dots. For once you're using your 'head'.

Some people don't seem to recognise the irony in forcing countries to be democratic.

davidk14: .

Hamas was democratically elected.

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davidk14: .

What is democracy?

Lecture at Hilla University for Humanistic Studies
January 21, 2004


http://www.stanford.edu/~ldiamond/iraq/WhaIsDemocracy012004.htm

Perhaps we should look at the word democracy and what it entails before just saying, "...they were democratically elected. It's Democracy." There are responsibilities.

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Sarcastic Dots: I'm just going to go ahead and spew my own little source here. I have to type this out, since I don't have an online source, so bare with the typo's.

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To the majority of Americans, it would appear, there is no contradiction between the ends of global democratization and the means of American military power. As defined by their president [Bush Jr], the democratization mission of the United States is both altruistic and distinct from the ambitions of past empires, which (it is generally assumed) aimed to impose their own rule on foreign peoples. The difficulty is that President Bush's ideal of freedom as a universal desideratum rather closely resembles the Victorian ideal of "civilization". "Freedom" means, on close inspection, the American model of democracy and capitalism; when Americans speak of "nation building" they actually mean "state replacing," in the sense that they want to build political and economic institutions that are fundamentally similar, though not identical, to their own. They may not aspire to rule, but they aspire to have others rule themselves in the American way.

-Niall Ferguson's "Colossus".

davidk14: .

Interesting comments. I looked this chap Niall Ferguson up and found this site with recent articles he as written. Give it a look. Interesting stuff.



http://www.thedailybeast.com/contributors/niall-ferguson.html


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davidk14: .

Dots,

Did you go and look at the description I post regarding the word democracy? Thoughts?

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Sarcastic Dots: I had a look, yeah, hence my response. There were two points that I found contestable for various reasons, but I took the lazy route and quoted from a far more capable man than I. I'll probably comment on it more specifically (rather than being vague) later on, but I'm a bit ill tonight and can't be bothered.

On the plus side though, I did actually find some of those articles prior to your posting (like 10 minutes before) so at least I have something to read.

If you are interested in reading more, there are a few books I can recommend.

davidk14: .

Sorry to hear you are ill. You said, "They were democratically elected. It's a democracy."

This thread was not about Bush or America but about the article about Egypt and democracy and since people use the word differently as your post did, the question of my post, is the definition valid and if not, specifically, why not? Other than section six regarding Iraq, which items of the definition do you find questionable?

Looking forward to your thoughts.

Get better soon.

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hellbhoy: If a democracy votes in a tyrant then is it still a democracy ?,this may be the case in Egypt again I fear if it still condones the innocent slaughter of the Coptic Christians that live there.Remember a democracy is freedom for all no matter who or what they are unless they are deemed law breakers or criminals by the established law.Then if the Christians are forced out or slaughtered then that is not a democracy but a fundamentalist regime eliminating all or any opposition.

One Bar: A sick person shouldn't be up at 0200 playing on the internet. Have some Lemsip and get some sleep.

Perdurabo: USA! USA! USA!

Bring on the live broadcasts of Islamic fascists blowing up the pyramids and other ancient Egyptian monuments because they are products of a pagan people.

dave3974: nothing would surprise me

Comrade_:
"This is what we get for supporting them...not democracy, but Sharia Law...."

-Care to clarify what you meant but "we" and what "support" that the "we" were giving?


I think the question is if the Sharia Law can coexist under Democracy. Some people will agree that it can exist under "Democracy" and some will agree that it can't.

I see the majority as being Muslims hence they may be 'rooting' for a Sharia Law.

dave3974: if you saw the state of law and order in the uk you might want sharia law

unicorn1: ..from a female perspective, I have to say, not very likely.

hellbhoy: Sharia law in a democracy ? will NEVER happen EVER.

Dave3974 if you think living in a martial law state is a good thing ! immigrate then.

If you think stoning a woman to death is OK because a mans eye was cast upon her and the husband didn't like it and had her killed ! have it outside the UK.

They probably trump up charges against you to steal that huge bit of gold that is constricting the blood to your brain.

No religious group should ever be in government by their past records,most wars were caused by religious nutters and fanatics and yes Hitler was a religious fanatic too AYRAN race indeed.

Comrade_: The only part I agree with you is on the first part of your last paragraph. Religion and Politics should never mix. Muslim/Christian etc. But that's not the reality though.
I'm not familiar with every single part of the Sharia Law and the different degrees of the law so I'd not comment on the rest. But would it be democracy if the people vote for such laws? Some people view laws as a prevention method rather than a punishment method. They will have a different culture and religious preference than Westerners.

hellbhoy: Tell that to the Arab uprising Jack.

Sharia law is a total religious dedication and failure to adhere has dire consequences not just for you but your family,ironic that the filthy rich Muslims totally disregard and flaunt the law and live like decadent Westerners without punishment.So is just another tool used to keep the masses in line.

lavendar_star: I agree in parts with Jack and Hellboy,

If the people of Egypt voted that way which resulted in a result which is less desirable than we would of wanted in the west, I am assume thats what 'we' means than that's democracy in process. As the citizens of any nations should vote in accords to what they want, not what we would want in the west, why should they!!!!

However, I have to question who voted i.e. how many women voted and how Sharia law undoubtedly will be of a similar style to Iran and Saudi Arabia and by default Sharia Law discriminates against half the population i.e. women. I respect what you say Jack by prevention in contrast to the West's punishment, but as Hellboy say there are alot of examples within Sharia Law states where women have been treated harshly, and the double standards of the rich.

lavendar_star: Also what about non Muslims or muslins who don't live their lives religiously by Islam, I imagine living in a country with Sharia Law not going to be great far from it, religion and politics should be separated.

One Bar: Many of the women vote for Sharia Law because they daren't do otherwise. And that's if they're even allowed to vote.

One Bar: Sharia Law is wrong because it makes women cover their bits.

Comrade_: The Egyptian people stood up and revolt on their own against a US-backed dictator. I wasn't looking at the Sharia Law and Democracy from an emotional perspective but simply as a legal one, it is a law in a 'democratic' setting. No?
We'll have to see how it goes for them and if they'll choose to stand up to this too. We look at it from our perspective, I don't agree to the law if I could have my way I'd prefer if it could be tweaked, but in the end it will be up to them to decide.