Is it the end of capitalism? (Page 66) davidk14: , Not sure if it is capitalism that is the cause. However, the world did loose her as a doctor. Actually, I believe it was the cost of the malpractice insurance she would need to carry for the profession of heart surgery. . davidk14: . Health Insurance is not based on capitalism. It is based on socialism. The need for Malpractice Insurance is blamed on incompetence and fraud. . davidk14: . And there is no fraud or incompetence is socialism? There is more abuse of the population with socialism since it festers the I do not give a shit attitude since there is no motivation to do better today than yesterday. .  ghostgeek: I wish Wonderbunny would tell us how, by abolishing trade, everything would be allocated to where it is needed. Let us keep things simple and ask how custard creams might be distributed. I may not want one today but I might tomorrow so how will it be put in my grubby paw when and where I desire?  Wonderbunny: David: motivation is easy to find when there's a problem to solve. In our daily work we are not thinking about money the whole time are we? We're thinking, for example, how can we make best use of the space in the warehouse? How can we mend this table? How can we speed up our processes? How can we debug our computer? Etc. GG: You could get custard creams from the store. Maybe. The food production people might decide to make more nutritious food instead. No great loss really. ghostgeek: Yes, I think I've grasped the part where I go down to the store and pick up a packet of custard creams. Now let us move on a little and delve into the arcane process of getting my favourite bickie into the nearest store. How will it be done Wonderbunny when when there's no trade? Oh, and while you're at it, you might as well explain how my naughty little treats are going to be manufactured. Thanks. Wonderbunny: In a biscuit factory. Transported by vehicle. Does absence of money make everyone incapable of action? davidk14: . How did the transport vehicle get fuel? For free? Does that vehicle get more fuel than another business? . Wonderbunny: Yes for free. Yes it gets more than a business that has already fulfilled all its deliveries. Or a business that is less important. davidk14: . Who decides what is important and who gets more fuel than another? For example, does the transport company that transports human organs get more fuel than the transport company bringing food to the grocery store? .  LiptonCambell: What happens if custard isn't popular? Say ghost is the only one in a town of 2000 who wants custard- do they keep it stocked, all the time, so it's available for them when they want it occasionally? Or does ghost have to go without? What if no one wants to work at the custard factory? Where does the custard come from? What if custard is so unpopular that theres only one custard factory in all the country, and no truck drivers want to travel across country so that ghost can have custard every once in a while? LiptonCambell: In a capitalist nation? You can get what you want. In a country where everything is 'free'? Nope. you can only have what the majority needs. And need is the keyword there davidk14: . You mean like....toilet paper...Every ass needs if yet as well saw in the USSR...people lined up for the government to give them paper to wipe their asses. Amazing. davidk14: . So...someone stole a truckload of toilet paper and sells the paper roll by roll at a 100% markup because there was enough of it in the Black Market Pipeline. And there still were lines of folks that lined up to get their free toilet paper. So, either you purchased illegal TP and saved time, or you waited in line to get free TP. Sounds like capitalism to me. They made choices and that is what capitalism does....it creates choice. So, for me to have my chocolate custard in a capitalist free environment, I need to go down to my local BM (Black Market) Enterprise, and get me some of my chocolate custard!  I CHOSE !!!! . ghostgeek: I have a feeling that Wonderbunny is not going to explain how an economy without money would function. It's easy to understand why she might not want to do so. It would be very hard work. An economy is not a collection of disparate parts, each operating in isolation. Think of it more like a living body, where each organ is interlinked. A change in one part causes changes elsewhere. The same applies with an economy. A change in a specific parameter will have ramifications elsewhere in the system. If, for example, the demand for tea doubles, satisfying it will involve more than just growing extra produce. More labour will have to be employed to pick it, possibly taking workers away from some other task. More trucks will be needed to transport the leaves, requiring in turn more oil being pumped out of the ground and refined. This act likewise will require the provision of more resources which again will result in further changes somewhere else in the economy. And so it goes on and on, almost without end. Remember, this is just for tea. Aggregate this for all the products of a modern economy and then try imagining working out where everything should go. And than doing the same task again and again and again and..... Nobody has a computer big enough to accomplish this. Yet, using money, people trading with each other make the whole system work. Anybody claiming to have a better idea are going to have to do a lot of explaining to convince me.  Sir Loin: This argument is getting bogged down with pedantics now. It's not about toilet paper or chocolate custard (yuck!) Its about economics and you can't argue against 1.8% tax rates or full employment. I mean there are no jobs in the west yet China has offered me almost unlimited choice of interesting jobs with salaries that exceed even USA pay rates. Nothing is representative of capitalism more, to me, than a wall street banker or stockbroker, these evil creatures are not seen in a socialist society.  slasian: From the words of the president, in his Remarks on the State of the Union, February 12, 2013 "Corporate profits have skyrocketed to all-time highs -- but for more than a decade, wages and incomes have barely budged." This is the mark for a system that it is loosing its ground. It is not an economic recess because profit is still booming yet this is not abundance because the public is suffering. This is a slow death, and in the process capitalism is going to give birth to Corporateism! Edit= The dummies cannot think further than toilet papers  (Edited by slasian) ghostgeek: Sir Loin, you are a privileged foreigner working in China. Lucky you. What about the ordinary Chinese though? How are they doing? I notice that the unemployment rate in China in 2014 is stable at a little over four percent. Better than the West, I grant but certainly not full employment. Also, how much trust should we put in the official figure? In 2012, researchers from Texas A&M University worked with China’s Southwestern University of Finance and Economics to survey 8,000 Chinese households. It discovered that China’s urban unemployment rate was actually 8.05%. Hardly brilliant. Now here's another startling piece of news, the top marginal personal income tax rate in China is 45.00%. And lets not forget that China has the second largest number of poor in the world after India. Yes, official data showed that about 98.99 million people still lived below the national poverty line of RMB 2,300 per year at the end of 2012. So, are living standards in China so much better for ordinary Chinese than what we enjoy here in the West? I wonder. ghostgeek: Despite President Nicolas Maduro's best efforts at establishing price caps, government rationing, currency controls, and stationing troops at places of business in order to prevent the collusion of greedy profit-seekers and American imperialists in their “economic war” against him, the mass shortages of basic goods plaguing Venezuelans persist. The great toilet paper shortage in Venezuela, it seems, just keeps getting worse. Soon, even using newspaper as bumfodder may become impossible as Venezuela is also struggling with a major shortage of newsprint. Making jokes about toilet paper just isn't funny when you don't have the stuff. | Politics Chat Room 52 People Chatting Similar Conversations |
