What does the future hold for the one party state of China dave3974: This year it is 22 years since the tanks were sent into Tiananmen Square to crush the student protests, creating scenes that still define China’s ruling Communist Party in the imaginations of many living in the West. So much has changed for the better in China during that time, and so many of the demands of the students for freedom to live their lives as they saw fit, have in practice been met. But in several crucial respects China has not moved on from 1989. Crucially, the Party has never apologised for what happened on the night of June 3-4th, never admitted that whatever the reasoning and the outcome, the means of violent repression was fundamentally wrong. Now, however, the Mothers of Tiananmen, a group that has toiled keep alive the memories of those who died, say they have been approached about the issue victims’ "compensation" by police intermediaries.You could write this off as a craven ploy to buy the mothers’ silence, but equally the mere fact that talks have been opened with one family – after years of even refusing to countenance dialogue of any kind – might yet be a hopeful sign of a new road ahead. The Mother’s themselves sound sceptical, pointing out that 22 years after Tiananmen, China’s ruling party feels more skittish than ever after the Middle East uprisings, pouring the state’s massive resources into ever more powerful and microscopic social control mechanisms. When asked, senior Party officials defend what happened in 1989 as an unpalatable but unavoidable act that was necessary to create the platform of social stability for China’s economic growth of the last 20 years – in which the world has happily profited. But of late, as the Party tries in vain to heal itself of corruption, to silence dissenting voices (in a way it didn’t a decade ago) and hark back to a mirage of Maoist nostalgia, you have to ask: exactly what kind of long-term “stability” did the Party buy itself by sending the tanks into Tiananmen? China remains a corrupt and censored society (Edited by dave3974) RealRabbit88: 1) have you ever been to China? 2) please explain to me how Chinese leaders and key cabinet members become leaders and become key cabinet members? RealRabbit88: let's also talk about the UK, where I believe that you are from Dave. How barbaric is it for grown adults to throw 8 year old children into a steel cage with the sole intent of pummeling each other? Sounds like a third world barbaric country to me.....shameful and disgraceful..... RealRabbit88: let's also talk about the recent riots and looters in the UK Dave. btw, were you 1 of the participants in the looting or rioting? why were the people rioting Dave? Poverty? Corruption? both? YouTube third world anarchy dave, wouldn't you agree? RealRabbit88: what about the corrupt politicians in the UK Dave? Like Tony Blair for example........didn't he support whole heartedly invading Iraq? RealRabbit88: how about censorship in the UK Dave.......like the stop & search laws.....and the police taking cameras away from photographers censoring from the world what is really happening in the UK. Let's talk about these things Dave.....afterall, you are at the mercy of said censorship in the UK, aren't you Dave? YouTube YouTube (Edited by RealRabbit88) RealRabbit88: dave aka double D, wondering why your profile states that you are a 49 year old not so happily married man? Are you trying to attract women on wire with that statement? Do you plan on having multiple affairs on your wife Dave? Why wouldn't you just be honest with your wife Dave? A man that can't be trusted by his own wife certainly can't be trusted with anything else that he may say......isn't that right Double D (Dummy Dave)? dave3974: What an odd view you have of the world bran , are you so ignorant that you have to resort to personal abuse when you can not make a point , luckily all chinese people are not so rude . You have been vry busy can you find some more info about the uk RealRabbit88: you're their poster boy double D (Dummy Dave). You're all I need to show the world just what the UK is made of.. btw, here's an interview with Steve Wynn. Steve Wynn is worth 100's of millions of dollars. He owns multiple mega resorts and casinos in Las Vegas, Macau and other parts of the world. He is a friend of my family. He now makes his home here in China. Amongst other things, Steve Wynn states that it is the west that is unstable and it is China that is the stable country. Tell us Double D (Dummy Dave), what are your achievements thus far in your life? Please don't include being called a dummy by me as an accomplishment even though, I bet it's probably the highest form of praise that you have ever received............ dave3974: 1. It is estimated that one million Tibetans have died as a result of the Chinese occupation, through imprisonment, torture and executions. 2. In the period between March 2011 and December 2012, more than 90 Tibetans in Tibet set themselves on fire in protest of the Chinese government’s oppressive regime. These protests have continued into 2013. 3. In 2008, a United Nation report concluded that the use torture in Tibet was “widespread” and “routine”. 4. What China calls the Tibetan Autonomous Region (TAR) is only half of historical Tibet, which was about the size of western Europe. 5. Before the Chinese invasion in 1949, Tibet was a nation with its own government, currency, postal system, language and legal system. 6. The Tibetan plateau holds the world’s third largest store of fresh water in glacier form, and feeds Asia’s largest rivers. One billion people rely on this water source, which is under threat because of China’s policies of strip mining, deforestation, damming and diversion of rivers. 7. After the Chinese invasion, over 6,000 monasteries were destroyed in Tibet. 8. Tibetans are becoming a minority in TAR due to the vast influx of Han Chinese migrants, encouraged by incentives from the Chinese government. 9. Despite China's claims to have 'developed' Tibet, the illiteracy rate for TAR was a staggering 45% in 2005, compared to 10% in China as a whole in 2004. 10. One million nomadic herders have been forcibly moved from their traditional grazing lands, because of China's re-settlement policy. This is comparable to the treatment of Native Americans and Australian Aborigines by Western colonisers. Comrade_: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-21502088 "China military unit 'behind prolific hacking'" [China has so far deny this claim] Read part of this, not done finish reading the article but the question came to mind. Don't all the top governments (US, UK, etc) 'hack' or engage in some form of espionage? Is there some moral conduct that it's ok so long as one don't get caught or something..  chronology: I have this to you before dave, I say it again 'NO BODY DIED IN TIENEMEN SQUARE' it is a lie spread by hate freaks in the West. As for Tibet, I thank God that the Chinese Army rescued the Tibet people from the ignorance and squaler they were living in. No am not a communist or socialist, and you are not helping the Tibeten people by driving the Red Army out of Tibet. American boys and girls have done much for Peace, but America cannot carry the entire burden of world peace keeping. chronology: dave. I have read your Post about Tibet and frankly I cannot believe the drivel you have posted there so full of hate and ignorance. First, the Chinese people sacrificed much when they entered Tibet and began a period of devellopment and progress there. China has not always been a rich super power like it is today, and when they began their assistance to Tibet they made real sacrifices. Do you think the Red Army enjoyed the process of having to teach the most basic civic skills to the Tibeten people? there are many young service men and women in both the U.S. and China who are willing to and have the energy to help in nation building in places like Tibet and Afghanistan, but it is often frustrating and difficult work. Eventually American boys and girls can go home from Afghanistan, at some time in the future China may restructure it's plans for Tibet, but right now both Afghanistan and Tibet need more than just NGOs they need a real time presence of support. If you had any real good will towards the Tibeten people you would telling them to cooperate with the Chinese Government who has done so much for them already. chronology: Ref Tianemen Square. Well as it has become so obvious that the lies circulated about a 'massacre' were just that, 'lies' people trying to smear China have now changed their story. They say the killing took place outside the Square and were not reported about. More scotch mist and 'Grassy Knoll snipers' for history. When crowds of people run around there are inevitable injuries, 70 people died at a stairwell, one stairwell in Scotland when a man fell forward and started a 'crush' as people toppled onto each other down the staires. There were probably similar incidents when the Chinese Army Boys chased rioters around away from the Square. One man who has used recent documents stolen from some Governments by Hackers has established there was no 'attack' on demonstrators. He says the occupation of Tianemen Square had gone on for weeks and the Authorities in China eventualy lost their patience and insisted the squatters leave. When Chinese Army boys drove up to remove the squatters they were peltered with bricks and bottles and one Army Bus was set on fire killing some Chinese Army boys. The Authorities then orded troops to remove the squatters with force if necessary and tanks went in and removed the rioters. Inevitably some people seem to have died running around, either trampling themselves, or resisting orders to leave the Square. This true sounding account sounds a little different from your hate filled report dave. 'Rodney King' made a fine tale until people saw the full length video and had it explained that Rodney had provoked LAPD Officers and forced them to use force to arrest him. dave3974: You may be right about Rodney king , but the invasion of Tibet was just that and the destruction of their culture that followed, and tianamen was a massacre. Try doing a little research about Tibet . The cost of Tibetans’ resistance and courage is high. Tibetans may – and do – face sentences up to life imprisonment for crimes China calls “splittist”. Splittist crimes can include any act the government is threatened by, such as singing Tibetan songs, writing political blogs or staging any form of protest. Torture is common. Prisoners are often denied access to their families, lawyers and even medical treatment. China’s response to self-immolations has been to punish protester’s families and communities and blame the Dalai Lama. Chinese military presence at protest locations has increased and hundreds of Tibetans have been arrested or disappeared. House searches and intimidation are regular features of daily life in many areas. Peaceful demonstrators have been beaten, tortured and shot dead – such as Yonten. After thousands of Tibetans staged the largest protests in Tibet for over 50 years in 2008, Chinese authorities arrested, tortured and jailed an estimated 6,800 Tibetan protesters. The fate of some remains unknown. (Edited by dave3974) chronology: Sorry dave but no facts whatsoever support your vindictive posts against China. The best day in Tibets long and sad history was when Chinese Authorities graciously assumed responsibility for that basket case of a Region. And the squatters in Tianemen Square were the authors of their own problems. When Governments tell people to disperse and go home they will wait so long, but China and even Washington DC only have so much patience. dave, as a matter of interest, do you have any idea at all how backward Tibet was when China took responsibility for the District? chronology: Sorry dave, but the facts support the generous and unselfish support China has given Tibet. As for Tianemen Square it was no massacre, it was a three week long squat by demonstrators who refused to leave, and then attacked Chinese Army boys who were sent to remove them, all of the reports support this view. I suppose you would call 'Operation Motorman' a 'massacre' ? the Government had asked the people in the Cregan Estates to open the roads for normal traffic and Police Officer access but they refused. The Government in London was left with no option but to remove the barrackaids and allow emergency services and normal activity. The Government is the Government. Chinese Authorities have to maintain order like everyone els. | Politics Chat Room 47 People Chatting Similar Conversations |
