u.s. debt limit (Page 2)

davidk14: .

Leon,

“IF” is the word.

The big question is IF Reid “allows” the bill to be voted on.

Reid holds the administrations “balls” in his hands. IF Reid does not allow the bill to be voted on which he can legally do, Reid is through and he was a good soldier and fell on his sword.



IF Reid allows the bill to be voted on and IF it passes the senate, and IF the President veto’s it, all hell’s gonna break loose.



IF the bill passes the senate, and IF the President signs the bill, he is through with his base.



Either way, the only way the President can survive politically is for Reid to hold it up.


However…


Reid really can’t hold the bill up. Most believe the debt limit must be raised by August 2nd and time is running out. The dems do not have a proposal. If he holds the bill up, the debt limit can’t be raised. Yes, there will be money to pay out 60% of our obligations, but this is another extremly bad scenario for the administration.


The bill is a good common sense bill and most people support it’s concept to cut costs, control spending and to have a balanced budget amendment for current and future administrations. The President also knows the world is watching and they expect him to do what is needed to stabilize this economy.


In chess, I believe the republicans just said “check”.


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Leon35: David, Yes you are right, I agree. "IF" Reid allows it to get on the Senate floor, I think it will pass. "But", if Obama makes him put the Gang of Six's budget limit bill on the floor to keep out a vote on the house bill that will undo the "check" for now. Still not over till the fat lady sings. I do not believe the Senate should even consider spending or cuts bills, thats only for the house, I think.

Leon35: Now, Obama has called Democtraic leaders to the White House to meet with him, this very hour. I do think he should forfeit the game. It is better then being "check mated".

Leon35: Now, Republicans are calling Obama out about him saying that raising the debt or cuting taxes will hurt seniors and business owners. Saying he is lying. Trying to scare people.

The senate say they will take up the debate tomorrow on the Cut, Cap, and Balance bill passed by the house. The Gang of Six bill has more work to be done on it so, its not readly to bring up in the Senate.

Leon35: Today the Senate has "tabled " the house bill. This move places the game in a "castled" position. Harry Reid and President Obama has left town. That way neighter has to deal with the debt problem.

So, what is the "endgame" ? I think it is so the "Gang of Six"'s plan can be finalized. That is the plan that Obama wants. Why ? Because it has (3) Democrats making the bill, not Republicans (2).

On Monday, we will continue this cat and mouse game, that some people call "chess".

davidk14: .

Anything the senate produces has to go to the house for their approval. I heard that the house is going to once again send another Cut / Cap / Balance bill to the senate next week.

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Leon35: Thanks David, that is news to me. So, is that an assault move by the house (white pieces) ? Next move is Their's (black pieces). I think a waiting game move. Wait for the Senate's "budget limit bill) ?

davidk14: .

Here are Obama’s thoughts on the debt limit in 2006, when he voted against increasing the ceiling:

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure.

It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills.

It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally.

Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.”

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Obama is now begging that the debt ceiling needs to be raised. The debt has risen by 5 trillion dollars under his leadership, or should I say, his lack of leadership.

The negotiations from his point of view must “save” his social programs but it’s the social programs causing most of the problems. Believe me when I say I am concerned about Social Security (which I know I will not see a dime), Medicare and Medicaid (which I do not use) for those that are “dependent” on these programs. But if something is not done, and done soon, there will be no programs for anyone. Perhaps we might consider what must be done as a medic must do on the battlefield doing triage. Some [parts of the entitlement programs] are just not gonna make it.

Leon, I really don’t know what to think right now. There is so much information, dis-information, mis-information going around that it’s mind boggling.

We’ll just have to try and have a nice weekend and wait and see. I just heard Obama called for a meeting tomorrow at 11 am EST at the White House with both parties. I think panic might be setting in for everyone in Washington, DC.

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Leon35: And, another thing David, is that Obama wants to cut coverage to medicare, not have a cost of living for people receiving medicare, and raise the age limit to start medicare. And, have a tax increase for all taxpapers. That is his "plan". The only thing is - he will not put it in writing.

He went out yesterday to tell students, who are not in medicare, that the cap, cut, balance bill would cut and cap their medicare benefits. He should tell the American voters who are in medicare what he really wants to do.

franklin1950: 6 days to the august 2nd deadline .
time for some more political debate , more talking head commentary.
time for one more inspiring presidential address to the nation.

Leon35: The way I see it, is that Obama will have to sign the bill. He will not let the country go into default. That will make him have one more screw up on him.

He has the Obamacare, bail outs, the easy money wasteful spending, junk cars, shovel readly jobs, on his shouders now. So, don't need more

All the Republcian have to do is give a bill to the Senate and sit on thier hands till they pass it. And, they will have to pass it. I think that is what will happen. That makes it a checkmate to Obama to lose the game.

davidk14: .

One of the problems I believe will occur...if we do not raise the ceiling...the downgrading of the credit rating which will create high interest rates. Just one of the problems.

With that said, the main issue is overspending and this must be addressed.

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franklin1950: perhaps a return to the gold standard as the american dollar does not seem to be as rock solid as they would like.
china and george soros [ he is reported as having 11 tons himself ] are ready for the change $ to gold .
good old fort knox .
then perhaps the * federal reserve bank * will let the congressman in to actually view their gold .

but whatever happens in the next few days there is one thing all can agree on the president is just to historically important to fail
two things ... the presidents birthday is on the 3rd 0f august and it would be a dirty rotten stinking shame if he didn't get his birthday wish . [ whatever his wish might be ? ]

Sarcastic Dots: One of the problems I believe will occur...if we do not raise the ceiling...the downgrading of the credit rating which will create high interest rates. Just one of the problems.

Pretty much. I find it inconceivable that the United States credit rating could fall below Britain's.

As it so happens we had to cut spending and raise VAT (value added tax) in order to secure our credit rating, yet rumours are flying around London that our credit rating will fall regardless due to our sluggish growth.

There isn't an easy solution. Most countries need to cut spending and raise taxation, but that staggers growth, which is just as important when it comes to dealing with debt (let alone a deficit).

davidk14: .

Franklin said: but whatever happens in the next few days there is one thing all can agree on the president is just to historically important to fail

David responds: He has already failed. He did not have the qualifications to be president and if it wasn’t for his “race” he would not have been nominated due to his lack of skill sets for the job description.

Sarcastic said: There isn't an easy solution. Most countries need to cut spending and raise taxation, but that staggers growth, which is just as important when it comes to dealing with debt (let alone a deficit).

David responds: You are absolutely right, there are no easy solutions.

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franklin1950: waste , fraud , duplication , misappropriation might account for some millions of dollars out the poop shoot.

here in canada we have our yearly tax time . all throughout the year we have our gst/pst [now the morphed hst] that is added to allmost every thing purchased or used . we also have our misterious seldom mentioned hidden taxs . plus [fishing ] licence fees . [ building ] permit fees . etc etc etc etc

i think the american people would approve of a goods and services [ sales ] tax on every thing they buy or service used . every one would have " skin in the game " . knowing that the government would use this money in a wize and prudent manner for the betterment of the american people and and the american way.

davidk14: .

Franklin said: waste , fraud , duplication , misappropriation might account for some millions of dollars out the poop shoot.

David responds: I agree. Let’s just say it’s not millions of dollars that could be saved but billions of dollars. Let’s just say it’s 100 billion dollars a year in all waste, fraud, duplication, misappropriations of the federal government…this would equal just one month of deficit spending. That’s just 1/12th of the deficit of this year alone. Yes, it’s a lot of money, but only a drop in the bucket.


Franklin said: i think the american people would approve of a goods and services [ sales ] tax on every thing they buy or service used . every one would have " skin in the game " . knowing that the government would use this money in a wize and prudent manner for the betterment of the american people and and the american way.

David responds: There are discussions on this type of taxation so that everyone “has skin in the game”. Whatever the overhaul of the tax system would look like to make it fairer for all Americans, a balanced budget amendment must be a part of the solution. Spending money we do not have must be curbed.

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Leon35: This is what will happen before August 2nd, so they say - the senate will get the "new bill from the house, it will not pass the Senate, if it does, Obama will veto it.

What will really happen is - the Senate will pass it and Obama will sign it.

Heres why - politics works this way - they say one thing, do another. Senator Reid said it is dead on arrival. Means he will have a vote and it will pass. Obama advisers say he will veto it. Obama will sign it and say, "I had to go against my advisers because I have to look after the country, I can not let people have high interest payments, I need to build jobs, I need to improve the ecomony.

It will help me get re-elected, my words !!

franklin1950: david ... thats a lot of poop in a bucket. luckily t he u.s.a. has no shortage of buckets.

in the u.s the talk is of replacing the income tax with the sales [ value added ] tax .
here our government in its wisdom has the income tax " pluss " the 12% added tax on pretty much every thing puchased and service used therfore getting more of our money into government coffers .

i don't know for sure but i think we have ballanced budget legeslation for both federal and provincial governments . if they don't ..... they should .

the canadian tax base is much smaller than the u.s. and our financial obligations fewer .
our medical and social services could certainly use an overhaul to make them more efficient . nothing that more revenue would solve.

Leon35: Franklin, I take it that you are talking about the "fair Tax". Heres you some insight to this bill - It was introduce in the house by the Rep. from Georgia in 2006. It has not moved since. The thing about it is that it is still a tax and you may know that taxes are added to. And, we would still have sales, fees, and property taxes to name a few, to pay.

The best tax bill is one that Ron Paul wants. Do away with the income tax and the IRS. Do away with some departments the constitution do not allow. Bring our troops from all over the world and put them on our borders. Iam for that candidate !!!!

davidk14: .

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul

I went to the web to get a larger view of Ron Paul. Go to the above link and scroll down to Political Positions.

I've exchanged letters with his son Rand recently regarding his fathers beleifs. One of Ron Paul's stances I'm not confortable with is abolishing all foreign aid to anyone for any reason. I'm not concerned with abolishing aid to Israel since Israel is in great shape right now compared to 95% of the aid recipients and will endure no matter what, I'm concerned with abolishing aid which is provided by USAID to countries that for example are going through drought or for fighting AIDS and other diseases. The current foreign aid the US provides is less that 1% of the entire budget.

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Sarcastic Dots: Ah... Libertarianism. An idealistic pipe dream, akin to communism but on the other end of the spectrum.

But I'll give it to Ron Paul, at least he is honest about his views.

Leon35: David, thank for the link. I did not go to it because I know what Ron Paul thinks about most issues. And, I too do not want my tax money to go to other countries for any kind of aid. This country was not created to support or protect other countries.

My should our troops die for other citizens, why should we feed other people. If their governments want to use our troops - they should pay for it, if they want our food - they should pay for it. Aid should be given for a price. Not for being a friend. You ever eaten friendship.

Sarcastic Dots: Have you ever invited somebody to your house for dinner to improve your relationships?

Do you charge them for the money they ate?

C'mon.

Leon35: Mr. Sarcastic, I will tell you how honest Ron Paul is - he was asked why he voted "no" on the "cut, cap, banlance bill"? His answer, not enough cutted on the budget, to high a cap and it don't balance nothing. And, stated he would vote "NO" again. Thats honest !!!