Women’s Rights!!!!!

caramel lady
caramel lady: Hello

Are women better off than before i.e pre women's rights?

Are we still defined as sexual objects?

One of my last assignments for university was on girls in education. Even though this applies to the U.K, I’m sure the rest of the Western world especially America is the same and excluding Norway, Sweden, and Denmark who have progressive approach to gender equality. According to the research and statistics; girls do better than boys at school and in university, in most subjects and across class and race but is the opposite in the work place, despite that the attention of the media and the government are on working class boys' underperforming at school be it black, white or Asian, but no fuss is made on the continual under representation of women in male dominated industries i.e. high pay ones, the continual gender pay gap, no provision for child care and on the whole women are expected to do it all i.e. childcare, cooking and the housework as well as work for living. This is the 21st century people. Stay at home moms versus working mums and single mums, we constantly have to negotiate and balance things out otherwise you’ll be blamed for society ills. Plus the argument concern if some women asked to be raped (i.e. s&^& work) and that all the burden and responsibility is still on women. The rise of sx~ trafficking in the Western world I’m mean WTF how is this allowed to happen!!! Or should we be grateful and shout up considering how far we come, plus have some women taken advantage i.e. not letting men see their children, female rivalry, being a tease, what are all your opinions and thoughts on this, thanks
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ruby9101
ruby9101: that study of yours is so true but how are we to correct it ...? starting right from god being a man to normal routine things we have this make belief of man being a better gender .........even while knowing that woman is more intelligent we tend to give more importance to man's word and judgement.............. this can only change from core education by mothers to their children and following it up in coming years so that coming generations become better humans........... don't get disillusioned by my name ruby for i am a MAN endorsing your points............regards
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caramel lady
caramel lady: Thanks Ruby, it takes both men and women to solve the problem of women inequality, and your right about it starts with the concept of God being a man. Religion is one of the worst offenders in women inequality. A proverb says that a man is like gold he can all be washed pure again, where as a woman is like a cloth and so it’s hard to get clean,
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bri
bri: i come on here to see this i cant even go there on this subject everyone thinks its our fault that women ask to go through all this women go through alot and we deserve respect im sick of poeple saying men are the better gender but the truth is that there is no better gender we are equal and should be treated as such
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Leon35
Leon35: Ladies to be accepted as equals, women need to have the ideals of Libertarianism. Check it out at lp.org. Only Libertarian believe that all people are equal and the only role of government is to protect men and women the same. Religion, race, or age has nothing to do with it.

I did not see in your profiles that you have a political party affiliation, maybe you need one.
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LiptonCambell
LiptonCambell: I'd ask what you mean by "equality" dear, but I don't wanna be in the doghouse
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franklin1950
franklin1950: what is the greatest achievement of the womans movement in the past 50 years ?
what if anything would you consider a negative result of the womans movement in the last 50 years ?


mothers and grandmothers of the movement had their objectives
what of this new generation , the 20s the teens the adollesents and the new members being born every day ?
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Comrade_
Comrade_: hmm you're a little vague but do you consider that women prefer certain jobs? or is it that they are being by-passed for their male counterparts?

Are women better off today in terms of having rights than they were in the past? That's a good question. Depends on how far into the past you go or which cultural past you go into.
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bri
bri: well i dont know about you guys but women are still treated pretty bad these days i know ive been treated bad ive been rejected from jobs cause im a woman im not strong enough but watever and hun what i mean by equality is same rights and same standards us woman can do watever you men can do and you can be in the doghouse when i get there lol jks
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caramel lady
caramel lady: Hi, thanks people for the contributions. I believe that women in the west despite the obvious advantages are still in a society that women are second best. The fact that women are still paid lower than men proves this. This is a cultural thing but nearly all cultural in the world women are second best, i know in some cultures women do not have any power,look at world governments even in the west there’s not many women in a position of power. Moreover, women or young girl are still made to feel that a woman appearance is of the up most importance or that we are born to serve men madness. And yes Caveman women are purposely pass over for jobs for men. Things have got a bit better but in other countries and other cultural some women have as much rights as a child and that’s not right.
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Comrade_
Comrade_: I understand. But do you know your rights within your country? Example in my country there is an Equal Opportunities Commission that comes under the Ministry of the Attorney General. It deals with any form of discrimination, with gender discrimination, if a woman is underpaid or passed-over on a job for a male without any justification then she can go to the EOC and handle it. Maybe in your country there is something similar? The other discrimination will be social..there'll always be those, idk if it's possible to control those, only through educating the public. maybe.
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Leon35
Leon35: Caramel lady, the rights of women are not no worest then the rights of men, if the person do not complain to the authorites. If your rights as, a woman, are volated and you do nothing about it then you have no rights , so to say. Our laws in the USA cover all persons, male or female, if you live in another country, then people need to unite and demand their rights.
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caramel lady
caramel lady: Hello, to both Leon and Caveman, what you both say is valid, however, as you both know discrimination is more complex’s and subtle than that. In the U.K we obviously have similar equality laws as the U.S for example and the European Human right convention. However, what I point to is simple methods like most jobs in the u.k wages are offered between a range of salaries.and for example 12k -14k and they would offer a female jobseeker 12k and the men 14k. Plus on the whole men don’t have to negotiate child care in their career aspiration. The facts speak for themselves that women have less opportunity from childhood then males obviously there are other social factors that may change this fact. Plus issue like sexual violence or exploitation of women is still rife in Western countries and of course varies nations across the world. The conviction rate for rape in both U.S and the U.K are a disgrace, to say we live in a gender neutral societies is naive especially in the context of some developing nations and Muslin countries. In most important power base jobs across the globe Men are still the dominate figures despite women making up 51% of the world's population. I am a woman therefore; my perspective would differ from your opinion.
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Leon35
Leon35: Caramel Lady, you know what ? I believe in equality. That men and women are equal in rights and freedoms.

But, when it comes to geting paid the same, I have a different belief. I believe one should get paid for the worth they give for doing the work. If one is better then another that person should get paid more. And, one will be better then another every time, regardless of their s~x.

Take hair cuts, women paid more for one then man - why, because women's hair is harder to cut, takes more time, takes more products to use, or whatever. So, they get paid for doing something better, even against other women, right?
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the real slim DEEPy
the real slim DEEPy: i would sy that the wage disparity is LARGELY imaginary. first off, look at hospitals. doctors are mostly men and nurses mostly women. the hospital admin is CLEARLY SEXIST!!!!!! really? could it be that men and women have different motivations? now, look at social work, primary education, massaqge therapy and such. where are the men? clearly, these industries are heavily biased against men!!!! really?

could it be that women choose lower paying fields to work less overtime, or, occasionally, choose emotional fulfillment over financial compensation (teachers, social workers etc...) and/or occasionally come in to work late and leave early in order to deal with irregular childcare- because MEN largely IGNORE their offspring? remember that there are MANY more single custodial mothers than single custodial fathers. when you compare the salaries of 2 groups, you have to consider thousands of factors. the "facts" hardly paint a clear picture of the productivity levels and personal choices of the employees. the point is, men choose to focus on careers, are prone to become workaholics, and largely ignore childern, while the women are more prone to put the children's immediate needs first, and their careers second. very simple way to fix this- women, stop fukking chauvenists, you know, those men that EXPECT the mother to do all the parenting. also, stop demending gender equality for women, while continuing to hold men to their gender role of primary bvreadwiller. if a woman wants to focus totally on her career, she should seek a spouse who is willing to put his career on hold for the sake of the children.

gender roles should NOT be forced on anyone, women OR men. when a man is held to his gender role, he often becomes a negligent father, for the male role is not EXPECTED to perform much childcare. while women are quick to refuse gender roles for themselves, they rarely free their spouses from the male gender role- and since its the woman who is cereating the imbalance (forcing both parents to work), she is usually most willing to take time out of work to tend to childcare emergencies from time to time.

this whole "equality " thing has entirely ignored mens rights, when it comes to gender roles, divorce and parenting. all the feminists i have met, not a 1 is willing to seek a husband with a lower paying job than their own, and FEW divorce settlements willingly end in joint or father's custodialship, for women almost always demand that the man instead fulfill his gender role, and seek childcare payments over joint or loss of custody.
in otherwords, women protest their gender role, while continuing to hold men to the male gender role- leaving no parent at home with the kids. since it was the women's choice to deny fathers true "equality", it is the women who are usually first to sacrifice career over-achievement for family emergencies and such.
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the real slim DEEPy
the real slim DEEPy: well, for example, my ex wife was a feminist. she wanted a career, but she wanted me to make good money as well. i insisted that if we both worked, that we shoudld share responsibilities for the bills, so that we could have a nicer house and cars. we proceeded to amas debt, under the assumption that the payments would be shared; however, when the bills were due, she ALWAYS shorted me, leaving me to cover the slack and increasing my debt load. she wanted my money to pay the bills, while she wanted to keep hers as spending cash. this led to monthly spats about finances, and terribly soured our marriage. eventually, she left me for someone with a much better job. the problem is that feminism isnt about equality, its about having it both ways, and, is thus fail. civil rights activists should work to gether, like with te civil rights bill of 1965, in order to work out comprehensive and consitent rights for all groups. instead, each group has its own adgenda, and is indifferrent to how their demands negatively affect other groups, which leads to terrible confilcts and ineficciencies, once all the seperate, conflicting laws are put in the books. i.e. sexual harassment law denies men (primarily) their right of being "innocent until proven guilty", as any accused harasser is automatically susbended the very day the complaint is filed, and remains without income until he is able to "prove" his innocence in a hearing. DODT is necesarry because gays were left out of the civil rights act of 1964, which ALSO exempted the military from discrimination law in regards to nationality and sx*. since the gays HAVE no protections in the act of 1964, they would be legally discriminated out of the milatary without DODT. also, dodt would exposae them to liabilities in sexual harassment charges, since sexual language and even "looking" at others are all grounds for harassment. so you see, the laws to protect some groups actually conflict with laws to protect others...
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caramel lady
caramel lady: OK, Deep that was a long post but I do except some points that some women want it both ways but if you read my original post then you would of learnt that the reasons why women are in low paid industry is less to do with choice and more to with discrimination, The issue of women being selfish is less to do with their gender and more to do with personality, and i suspect for you any women with her own mind and who stands up for female rights is a feminist lol. The fact that only in last two decades that domestic violence against women has been taken more serious, and that violence and exploitation against women is still very high shows that more needs to be done. You state that since women have been given more equality men have less, that is crazy and shows your lack of knowledge since most judges, Politians and media owners are men. This is an issue of class and globalisation with the old masculine jobs previous available for working class men outsourced overseas by businessmen to a cheaper market. The whole bromance and defeminisation of males is yet again encourage by men, even in fashion its gay men who dictate the fashion of women. Would you like it like the old days or like it is in some Islamic countries, where women have to ask men’s permission to leave the house etc and are second class citizens?

Secondly this whole argument that having equality laws in some way discriminates others is a disturbing argument promoted by the right winged or some white supremacy types and it applies that despite the dominance of white middle class males in western society through explicit racism and sexism. Which our society has catered for, and the attempts through laws and policy to make our society more equality this has now resulted in discriminate against others. Is a very anti Pc discourse. The fact that most people in power in certain society have through the generations has created a structure where people in certain groups retain that power. A good example of this is when i saw the introduction of the first American Hispanic women in either the U.S senate or congress ( but im British so im not sure) the commentators the Nazis that is Fox's news complained that she will be giving Hispanic preference, However, what I found interesting was the sea of old white men surrounding her. There was no word how these old white men might firstly kept both a culture that made possible for people just like them to enter that arena i.e white men and secondly have they been giving white people in America special preface against all other Americans!!!I believe the complaints from some people is that their unhappy with women or minorities either reaching equality or practices that encourage equality. The point is some people like the status quo of belonging to a race and gender which gave them more equality and rights then other for their own belief of superiority. I'm not claiming that you are. The point is we are all human! And deserve equal rights and protection of the law. Please read an excellent book I read at university. It’s about how the far right politics (on the back of what you say how people getting rights has lessen the rights of other) has moved into the English speaking Western mainstream. The books called Whitewash : racialised politics and the media by John Gabriel, London : Routledge, 1998 In my top ten books dealing with race and nationality.
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Leon35
Leon35: Caramel Lady, there are many women who have power in this world. Just to name two to make my point, USA Sec of State Clinton and the PM of Germany.

Now another point, I know I am bias against some races and I am hispanic, but I think so is every one else. When one is bias one tends to blame thier beliefs on other issues. Like equal pay, jobs, womens' rights and this and that. But if you stop and think about it, who be hired is the one who can do the best job.

Women chose thier own careers, be it a doctor or a nurse, be it a lawyer or a judge, be it a cop or firefighter. Their choice.
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Daddio35
Daddio35: You know scum rises to the top. Have you ever considered maybe women are just less likely to be scum?
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caramel lady
caramel lady: ok, I think that people are just blinded to the oppression and discrimination out there and there’s no point in discuss stuff with people about this issue, plus two women in power you mentioned versus the 1,000s of 1,000s of men in power. I guess ignorance is bliss or blinding to some, plus as the last post suggest maybe women don’t have them ruthless and selfish qualities that men in power seem to have.
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Leon35
Leon35: Well, I know that women just got property rights here in the USA in the 1800's but, have a little more to go to be equal to men in jobs, power, and rights. You are right to want equal rights and freedoms as men do. I am Libertarian and agree that every one has the same rights and freedoms. You are right to want this and you should have them.
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LiptonCambell
LiptonCambell: Jesus, the viciously sexist comments that have come from the women in the thread is terrible. Those last two comments are completely unfair. Women hold roles in every facet of society- there is a cultural stigma, but it certainly is being overcome.

But the roles you demand be filled- leadership- must be earned.
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caramel lady
caramel lady: Ok, lipton u ignored the ignorant comments made by the men and you falesly claim that there were sexist comment. You probably have'nt experienced true sexism i suppest. Anyway, take care
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LiptonCambell
LiptonCambell: Are you saying its impossible for women to be sexist- or that you feel you are so overshadowed by male sexism that you have a "right" to be sexist, and I should accept the kind of comments from you that you feel are abhorrent when people use it against you?

There is no easy answer in this issue- no, women do not universally hold leadership roles- but its not simply a matter of "giving" women those roles- men had to earn the respect and support of their peers- men and women- to gain those positions, esspecially when we are talking about democratic leadership. This cannot be given.

Women are no longer being treated as second class citizens- they can earn education, they have laws protecting their equal opportunity, and they have jobs in every facet in society- this is a huge advancement in the last 100 years- but women must be willing to abandon the part of the sexuality that welcomes being dominanted- and lets be honest here- there are alot of women who are just as much of a problem as there are men.
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Leon35
Leon35: Not picking sides here but, Lipton I do have to agree with you on most of what you said. I have to add, some women do have the idea that man are being biases against them no matter what. Only for the fact that they are women. And, maybe that is true in some cases. That is them not all men, mind you.
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younlee
younlee: Until we get to the point where we stop putting labels on everyone, whether its s%$, race, sexuality, religion etc etc we are f%~&~@!!!

We are all human beings
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