Workers rights stripped in Wisconsin. (Page 6)

chronology
chronology: Tink. You are doing it again. You always, like some other people here, start attacking me personally and ignore the Forum topic. This Forum is not about me, it is not about exchanging childish remarks with other people about me. Just stick to the Forum topic. As for 'Spouting off', do you know what that phrase means? every person on Wire 'Spouts off'. But you ask how do I know what Americans want? Simple I keep up to snuff with opinion Polls and statistics. I seem to know more than you and other folks there about what Americans are saying, am listening to them, according you you just talk to a handful of farmers, and, (in your own words) know little or nothing of other Americans.

A National Strike now would be a disaster for the U.S. economy, if not for you and your friends who live near you.

Deep. Yes that is very commendable. But what about folks who need their Utility connected after it has been turned off because they cannot meet the Bill? It is not greedy to need basic Utilities.
3 years ago Report
0
Wampum6
Wampum6: Thanks, Chrono. For the first time in a long while, if not truly a first time, some of what you say makes some sense. Particularly the part about working together. Now, if that would happen, but egos are often bigger than teamwork, and it should be just the other way around.
3 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: .

National Strike? A national strike by 12% of the population of Americans?

BRING IT ON!!!

That would end the union and liberal movements in the United States for a very long time. The 88% of non-union workers won't stand for this. Not one bit!

Remember what Reagan did to the Air Traffic Controllers Union? "Either report to work or loose your jobs". They chose to loose their jobs. End of story.

.
3 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: .

Chrono said: “…but you ask how do I know what Americans want? Simple I keep up to snuff with opinion Polls and statistics.”

David responds: Did you just smoke a jay or something and just type that????? Not once have you ever posted your reference material where you get your “opinion polls and statistics”. You just make crap up.

Chrono said: I seem to know more than you and other folks there about what Americans are saying, am listening to them…

David responds: What???????????? Put that jay down man!!!!! You are now hallucinating!!!! Someone call 911 QUICK!!! Break down Chrono's door and and...Cancel that call.

Chrono said: A National Strike now would be a disaster for the U.S. economy, if not for you and your friends who live near you.

David responds: Perhaps but it would put an end to the selfish unions and members that are only thinking about themselves and not about their fellow countrymen. The country would servive and probably rebound a whole lot faster. In Indiana they outlawed collective bargaining and they are doing much better than before.

.
3 years ago Report
0
franklin1950
franklin1950: a national strike by the rainbow like coalision of the like minded .

organize the organized .

study the stratages of richard cloward and fransis fox pleven.
re-read saul alinskis' rules for radicals .

during his election campain obama said he walk the picket lines with the unions .
3 years ago Report
0
chronology
chronology: David........ You would have a job renditioning me. You would have to get past two systems of CCTV, one manned by an external monitoring, service, another is internal which is just self restarting HDD. True, I am less than 100 feet from a working runway, (yes runway, not the airfield, am inside the airfield). So forget your dreams of kidnapping me.

A confrontation would do America no good at all. Whenever you have two apposing sides facing each other in a stand off like what happened in Goldfields, you just get the most aggressive and roughest people in society coming to the front of both sides. No one wins. This is not about 'you' David, this is about what is best for the U.S.A.

You seem to want to attack and dominate Union members, as I see the situation, the are simply trying to defend their members previously negotiated wage contracts.

The Town of Goldfield NV today is a fine Tourist destination with a rich history, who knows what it could have been if there had been more good will on both sides back then.

So don't be saying 'bring it on'. Try saying; 'bring the coffee and donuts and let's talk this over'.

Franklin. But what about Americas elderly? The aged poor are of no interest or value to society when times are stable, remember how they were left in Katrina? there is also Americas teens to think of. True young folks are hardy, but the chaos of a national strike creates dangerous situations for them. How many youngsters get shot in National Emergencies?

And David. Let us all not forget something you have conveniently forgotten to mention about the Budget Crisis in Wisconsin, Scot Walker, not the hard working State Workers of that State created the Budget Mess. Wisconsin was scheduled to have a balanced Budget until Scot Walker won the Election, then handed out two Tax breaks to Citizens. Hmmmmm, if you cut down your income and keep spending the same amount? result? you are in the Red Ink. He expects Wisconsin Workers to pay for the votes he won with Tax Break promises, and you wonder why workers are pi""ed?
3 years ago Report
0
the real slim DEEPy
the real slim DEEPy: did no one hear me when i explained why you cannot raise taxes during a recession? conservative AND liberal economists hold this position, though there are different theories on each side. why dont you try to learn somethign about macroeconomics before you tell a state how to run their budget? read a few pages back, you will find out why it is bad to raise taxes during a recession, according to liberals, themselves...
3 years ago Report
0
the real slim DEEPy
the real slim DEEPy: here, since i doubt you posess the initiative...

"sure, youve heard the conservative claim that rasinig taxes retards investment, and thus, deters job creation, but even the most liberal of economists has their own unique reason not to raise taxes- and, it directly relates to how liberal monetary policies are deliberately creating inflation:

in bad times, it is perferred to have inflation, according to liberal economists, because it makes cash look like a bad investment, and thus tricks individuals into investing their money in the stock market and/or business endeavours, thus creating jobs. liberal monetary policy is guiding the fed reserve and congress into purpously creating inflation through cash injections into the economy, to make the money lose value and thus look like a bad investment- to stimulate job-creating investment. the keneysian formula for job creation is for every 2% of inflation, unemployment will be reduced by 1%. seeing that injecting cash into the economy causes inflation, it also seemingly follows that withdrawing money from the economy would negate inflation. raising taxes, is said, by liberal economic theorists, to withdrawl money from the money supply, and thus negate the desired inflation needed to create jobs"

and inflation is why the poor get poorer- its not simply because the rich get richer, but because the liberals create inflation.
3 years ago Report
0
Outbackjack
Outbackjack: David responds: You mean like NPR? The head of NPR and a senior management resigned today because they had been caught on tape slamming the Tea Party as 'racist' and the GOP as 'anti-intellectuals. Nation Public Radio, funded by the US Government using taxpayers hard earned money.

Maybe they are racist.They definitely are a bunch of crazy nutcases thats for sure.

I watched a documentary on your home state of Arizona David on the ABC show Foreign Correspondent and heres what one of your Sheriff's had to say about where you live:

Please respect FT.com's ts&cs and copyright policy which allow you to: share links; copy content for personal use; & redistribute limited extracts. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights or use this link to reference the article - http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1fee06f2-1b60-11e0-868c-00144feab49a.html#ixzz1GTS5Y0I7

Pima Country Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said that the suspected gunman is not “insane” but is “unstable.”

Sheriff Dupnik later said that a consuming atmosphere of political vitriol centred on Arizona may have been a contributory factor in the attack.

“When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government,” he said.

“The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous. And unfortunately, Arizona, I think, has become the capital. We have become the Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.”

Not very flattering is it but it?

I am sure the whole of the U.S really quaking in its boots because one lone Union official says he stands with the Communist party.


"And when this AFL-CIO head also said, “Not that long ago Americans openly rejected socialism and communism and now the communists are holding awards ceremonies and concerts in public high schools and openly honoring state labor leaders.” That this just did not happen?"

So this official actually states that the U.S rejected Communism and Socialism???

Thats hardly a ringing endorsement.


I read your ridiculous claim that autoworkers are getting $50 an hour and decided that I would follow your link(bet you didnt bet on that did you?):

The median salary for the level 3 Electronics Assembler(most qualified) is $41276 with the lowest 10% getting a mere $31269 and the top 10% getting $58040.

The median salary for the least qualified at level one is $30356 with the lowest getting only $22000!!!

AS A RESULT OF THIS I WILL RIGHTLY CONCLUDE THAT YOU HAVE DELIBERATELY LIED AND TREAT ALL YOUR CLAIMS?LINKS FROM NOW ON AS SUSPECT!!!

I wont even bother reading the rest of your rubbish.
3 years ago Report
0
Outbackjack
Outbackjack: Deep.
I see very little difference between Obama or bush.They are both the puppets of big Business and you neglect the fact that Bush gave trillions in bailouts as well.

A lot of these were not loans its deliberately misleading that you say that.A lot of the money was simply given away to Wall Street in return for the toxic assets that noone else wanted like bankrupt Bear Sterns stock for example which you couldnt even give away.

I covered a lot of this previously in the thread that you showed us.

I dont have a perfect solution for this but its seems like taxes need to be raised.You cant keep cutting taxes for over 30 years and then expect the workers to pay for it.

Also we need to get rid of that stupid notion that our governments cant own business's.Nationalise all privatised government resources for starters which will cut out the greedy middlemen therefore raising more money for government coffers.
3 years ago Report
0
Outbackjack
Outbackjack: Tink.

I see on Saturday that the farmers rode in on tractors to support the wisconsin workers.This seems to be turning into a broad movement.

As one farmer said "Dont worry about the tractors use livestock."
3 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: Chrono said: David........ You would have a job renditioning me.

David responds: You accuse me of being able to torture? Perhaps if you had planted a nuclear device to kill millions and knew when and where it was going to explode…perhaps…but here debating….never.

Chrono said: A confrontation would do America no good at all. Whenever you have two apposing sides facing each other in a stand off like what happened in Goldfields, you just get the most aggressive and roughest people in society coming to the front of both sides. No one wins. This is not about 'you' David, this is about what is best for the U.S.A.

You seem to want to attack and dominate Union members, as I see the situation, the are simply trying to defend their members previously negotiated wage contracts.

David responds: What is best for the USA you say? I want to attack and dominate Union members? Negative. It’s the Union “officials” who I am upset with. They are part of that “rich and greedy” group you are constantly talking about. They don’t give a crap about the people, they are only concerned with lining their own pockets. Wake up!!!!

Chrono said: And Da
vid. Let us all not forget something you have conveniently forgotten to mention about the Budget Crisis in Wisconsin, Scot Walker, not the hard working State Workers of that State created the Budget Mess. Wisconsin was scheduled to have a balanced Budget until Scot Walker won the Election, then handed out two Tax breaks to Citizens. Hmmmmm, if you cut down your income and keep spending the same amount? result? you are in the Red Ink. He expects Wisconsin Workers to pay for the votes he won with Tax Break promises, and you wonder why workers are pi""ed?

David responds: Let’s get this straight. Scott Walker was elected 5 months ago and he created the economic climate in Wisconsin???? Not. He and the republican dominated legislature was voted in “by the people of Wisconsin because the state was running in the red”. They were “voted” in to cut the “expenses” of previous state administrations.
Outback said: I watched a documentary on your home state of Arizona David on the ABC show Foreign Correspondent and heres what one of your Sheriff's had to say about where you live:

David responds: What the show conveniently did not provide you from the left leaning show from the #1 liberal broadcaster here in the US is that the Sheriff is under a recall drive for not enforcing current laws due to “personal liberal” beliefs. His county is a disaster zone. I live in this county and know first hand his officers are disgusted that their boss won’t enforce laws that he does not “personally” agree with.

Outback said: Pima Country Sheriff Clarence Dupnik said that the suspected gunman is not “insane” but is “unstable.”
3 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: .

Sheriff Dupnik later said that a consuming atmosphere of political vitriol centred on Arizona may have been a contributory factor in the attack.

David responds: According to the “attacker”, according to the “attackers” friends and family, the motive was not politically motivated and that he was “mentally” ill. The “college” the attacker was enrolled in had reported him to the sheriff’s office 5 times for “emotional outbursts” in classrooms. The sheriff’s department, Sherriff Clarence Dupbik’s Sheriff’s department was called to the campus “Five Times” for these outbursts but never arrested or detained him for “threading teachers and students with bodily harm”. Students and teachers alike were interviewed and on the record that they “felt their lives were in danger”. The school did expel him and place a restraining order on him. Sheriff Dupnick was aware of this person yet did nothing. If the Sheriff’s Department had followed protocol, 6 people would be alive today. Liberal Sheriff Dupnic, posted boy for the left, is now under a recall drive and will not be reelected. No wonder ABC never brought forth this information…he is or was their liberal poster child.

Outback said: "And when this AFL-CIO head also said, “Not that long ago Americans openly rejected socialism and communism and now the communists are holding awards ceremonies and concerts in public high schools and openly honoring state labor leaders.” That this just did not happen?"

So this official actually states that the U.S rejected Communism and Socialism???

Thats hardly a ringing endorsement.

David responds: More Outback gibberish. Respond to the comment that the Union enjoys the support from the Communist Party.

Outback said: I read your ridiculous claim that autoworkers are getting $50 an hour and decided that I would follow your link(bet you didnt bet on that did you?):

David responds: You’re an idiot. I could have posted a site that does not exist. Of course I expect “everyone” to go to the site to crunch the numbers. Just like the Sheriff’s “political” motivation you concluded from an admitted left leaning news agency which made conclusions from their poster boy instead of from the facts. Everyone will determine a conclusion and most likely…it will not be as you have concluded. You have a tendency to twist or not include other valid information to support your personal ideals, just like the Sheriff, instead of concluding thoughts from the facts.
So, as you have accused me, I will use your own words:

Go for it Outback!!!
Open every site, check every and all resource data research I post, check every word and every web-site I refer to!! THAT IS WHY I POST THEM YOU MORON FOR YOU AND OTHERS TO POST “YOUR” RESEARCH AND DATA SOURCES TO COUNTER MINE. Now, if you in the future say that you don’t have the time or don’t trust the information I post, provide research or data to prove me wrong….and just don’t say “AS A RESULT OF THIS I WILL RIGHTLY CONCLUDE THAT YOU HAVE DELIBERATELY LIED AND TREAT ALL YOUR CLAIMS?LINKS FROM NOW ON AS SUSPECT!!! That will just be an excuse for you to not face the facts and reality. That goes for you too Chrono or anyone else.
3 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: .

Outback said: I see very little difference between Obama or bush.They are both the puppets of big Business and you neglect the fact that Bush gave trillions in bailouts as well.

David responds: Obama and Bush the same?? You got to be kidding but that is debatable. Trillions? Not true. I challenge you to provide the resource of this conclusion. Trillions? Get real.

Outback said: I dont have a perfect solution for this but its seems like taxes need to be raised.You cant keep cutting taxes for over 30 years and then expect the workers to pay for it.

David responds: So the taxpayers should pay more and more huge bucks out for what? To invest in what??


Outback unbelievably said:
Also we need to get rid of that stupid notion that our governments cant own business's.Nationalise all privatised government resources for starters which will cut out the greedy middlemen therefore raising more money for government coffers.

David respond: I’ve got news for you…ALL BUSINESSES RAISE MONEY FOR GOVERNMENT COFFERS. IT’S CALLED TAXATION. So according to your comment, all businesses should be controlled by government. That’s called…communism.

.
3 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: .

Outback said: I see on Saturday that the farmers rode in on tractors to support the wisconsin workers.This seems to be turning into a broad movement.

David responds: Again, you have no clue...this so called "broad movement" is is very, very, very small. Even Obama is not actively supporting it.

.
3 years ago Report
0
Wampum6
Wampum6: What David said! And, Deep, too! Outback continues to go out in the rain and not take anything to protect himself. As a consequence he is all wet most of the time!
3 years ago Report
0
the real slim DEEPy
the real slim DEEPy: what about the teachers that were encouraged to call out sick, since its illegal for them to strigke and leave the schoolchildren without instrucxtors, and the doctors from the university who gave out fake sick notes for the illegal sick-out? theres broad support...
3 years ago Report
0
Malobear
Malobear: Deep,The teachers that went to those doctors to get a sick note and lied should be fired. Obama should handle it like Reagan did with the air traffic controllers.
Anyone that goes to a doctors office complaining of being ill is treated at their word. Imagine if everytime you went to a doctor and the first thing the doctor did was question whether you were lying or not. I dont know Deep whether you have any idea how many doctors there is in a medical teaching university and who is seeing you is not always a M.D. Most people seen in a M.D. office privite or school these days are taken care of by a P.A. If conditions warrant,the P.A. will then consult the M.D. on site and the M.D. will get involved. But for things such as the common cold the M.D. is rarly involved.,and there is many more P.A.s then doctors.
My guess is Deep,the M.D.s and P.A.s didnt know what was going on until after the fact.
3 years ago Report
0
Wampum6
Wampum6: That's a decent post, Malo, but there is no question in my mind but what those providing invalid medical excuses, knew exactly what they were doing, regardless of whether they were MDs, RNs, PAs, CNAs, or anything else! Beyond that, I think it is probably risky to lump all unviversity environments with speculation on what took place at UofW in Madison.
3 years ago Report
0
Tink
Tink: Chrono, (never mind...your comments are NOT even worth a reply from me and you are still a moron)

Jack,

From my understanding they had a tractorcade and rally because they wanted the voice of the rural farmer to be heard. NOT, just the voice of the rich and union leaders.

The farmers fear that Walkers budget repair bill will "potentially" take away BadgerCare and destroy the "rural" public schools.

Badger Care is a State health care program for the unisured. I assume much like our State health care program for the unisured (Minnesota Care)

As I said, pages and pages back. What WI public unions workers are being asked to contribute is putting them in line with Minnesota. As I said before, my brother IS a State union employee. He is in NO way suffering at all. Not at all. He owns two homes, he shows dogs in his free time and he travels. He retires this year at the age of 56.

I will say this though, I think the vote was a pretty crappy play.
3 years ago Report
0
Wampum6
Wampum6: Perhaps that is what some farmers think, Tink, but I have no idea of the real balance. On giving it my own thought, I don't think that is where the majority of elected legislators in Wisconsin are headed at all, but time will tell as more circumstances and clear thinking of all begin to prevail over rhetorical railing by fear mongers and those who would try to distort the thinking of others.
3 years ago Report
0
Tink
Tink: I don't know the answer to that either Wam. I just wanted to clear up why they held a tractorcade and rally.

I don't have enough information either way to form an opinion. Only stating the facts as I understand them.
3 years ago Report
0
Wampum6
Wampum6: Political demonstrations are often instigated by those who who strive to stir things up, and create turmoil and chaos, thereby helping to destroy reasoning and clear thinking, but increasing emotion when good reasoning would be better! So, it has ever been.
3 years ago Report
0
chronology
chronology: Jack. The broader movement you see would be encouraging, but there is little hard evidence for such a movement in Wisconsin, or anywhere else in the U.S.. Sure Farmers are alarmed at cutbacks to rural services but they are unlikely to co-operate with State workers. The crisis in Wisconsin comes down to one Guy, Mr Walker, who used Tax Cuts to curry favour with Republican Voters, then cut State workers wages and benefits to pay for his gift to well off voters who never needed the extra dosh. Jack, State ownership of Services only works in a limited number of services; Railroads, Prisons, Schools, Police, Sanitation, Postal Services, Social Services, Hospitals, all of those are best left with State ownership. Telecommunications, Airlines, T.V. Radio Networks, Newspapers, Water, Electricity, Gas, Gasoline distribution etc are best left with Private Business ownership. True there are always plus and minus points to ownership, but the broader picture gained from International Data all shows Private Enterprise and Government can do best in some aspects of Business. The real problem in the U.S. now is the default position being taken that American working people can be offloaded with all the burdens of managing red ink in the Books, red ink that has been deliberately splashed all over the pages by G.O.P. Governors. Americans have a real challenge ahead brought on by the transfer of their manufacturing industries to offshore countries. Those jobs are never coming back to the U.S. , dollar for dollar the jobs replacing them in the service sector do not pay the wages or taxes those manufacturing jobs did. Britain had the same problem in the 1980s, there they started borrowing money to put off the day of reckoning when reality finally hit folks over the head. Americans have a head start in learning from Britain's mistakes and can see which proposed solutions do and do not work. Actually many of Britain's State workers had their wages cut three years ago (they did that by 're-appraising' their job status) you just never heard about it. Since then the economy went into recession, so you can see what good that did.

David, you are a drama queen. Try taking a break in Tombstone and revel in the local history there. Or better still go and enjoy a break in Goldfield and see the results of people not co-operating together. Actually Goldfield is a nice place to visit, lot's of history, friendly folks.

And Mallo, your comments about Wisconsin Teachers are not thought out. If the Teachers did what Deep said, then what they were doing was putting up a flag saying; 'hey, something is wrong here', not malingering like Jerks. At least some Americans still have loyalty to each other.
3 years ago Report
0
davidk14
davidk14: Chrono,

Interesting post. Farmers are more worried about energy prices more than anything else.

The Governor of Wisconsin, the Honorable Mr. Walker who you call “a guy” is not responsible for the deficit crisis which was brewing for years under a Democratic Governor and legislature. Governor Walker was elected by the majority of democrat, independent and republican Wisconsin voters in November 2010 just five months ago. This is important to understand. He is doing exactly what he said he would do during his election campaign which is to attack a deficit which will hit $3.4 billion dollars.

You don’t raise taxes, especially in a recession. Even Obama knows this and that’s why Obama did not allowed the Bush tax cuts to expire. The liberal left in this country that supported him went “absolutely nuts” over this….they went completely out of their minds especially since Obama campaigned that he would let the tax cuts expire. Oh, he said he would close Gitmo too didn't he. Hmmm.

You said state ownership of services only works in a limited number of services such as railroads, prisons, schools, police, sanitation, Postal Services and Social Services. I don’t know if you know this or not, but every one of those “services” run by the US Government is and has been operating in the RED. Billions and billions of dollars in the red. And you know what they have in common? Unions. Did you know that the number one cost to taxpayers is their retirement packages? Now I’m not saying we throw out these packages, but like what’s been happening in the private sector, these retirement packages must be trimmed. After all, it’s tax money paying for these packages. Did you know that an a retired government employee who works for 30 years who retires at 55 will probably receive full compensation and benefits for another 30 years? Did this employee pay anything near to 30 years of compensation into the retirement fund? Nope. I believe the average amount they paid into their own retirement account over their career is 130k. You know who pays for the millions of dollars this this person will receive in their retirement…the taxpayer. It’s a ponzie scheme. The exact same one Madoff got life in prison for.

You said the real problem in the U.S. now is the default position being taken that American working people can be offloaded with all the burdens of managing red ink in the Books, red ink that has been deliberately splashed all over the pages by G.O.P. Governors.

Who do you think elected these new Governors five months ago? Their constituents. Splashed all over the pages by GOP Governors? Get real. They didn’t create the problem, however they were elected to deal with the problem since the democratic governors and democratic legislatures allowed the deficit in their states to get out of control from overspending.

.
3 years ago Report
0