'The World Has Divided Into Rich And Poor As At No Time In History' (Page 13)

slasian: Lipton, this thread is about the gap between rich and poor!

You must be... Your tricks to disguise the truth are not even smart. First you say its about poverty and poverty is going down. Then when I present concrete facts about how it is not by mentioning the richest nation, you ducked it Then you rant something about Africa, which you do not know nothing about! Again when I present concrete facts on that continent you babble about how poverty is not going down because of miss management blah blah. The crystal truth is poverty is not going down in a way you and other silly or greedy capitalists boast around.

The most important thing here is that, poverty is not going down in a way it should have because the gap is escalating. Few are accumulating the majority's wealth! Jack has clearly demonstrated it!

Edit= fools like you will never understood the point that the increment of income is nothing in our present economic system. Lets say, before ten years a monthly income of 1000 dollars was enough for Mr x. Now 3000 is not enough. Mr X's income increased from 1000 to 2000 (100%) increment. Does this mean poverty is gone? The mentioned Mr X is from USA more than 5 billion people in the world still live under 2.5 dollar per day. (The Gap is widening and because few are allowed to robe the majority, poverty will never go away! That is my point and that is also this threads point if you do not believe me check the title! )

LiptonCambell: ugh....I try and present a valid point, backed up by facts, on the actual topic this thread is about.....and all get for a response is

slasian: As every donkey loves to hear its own bray you can go nuts!

Edit (this is a special message for lipton, the content of the sentence doesn't necessarily refer to you)

Outbackjack: I have said enough to McLipton tonight. Life is too short to suffer fools:

Topic: Politics

I think I need a shower and a good shit and not necessarily in that order!

chronology: Jack. I was reading about Silicon Valley and the problem folks there are facing. It is becoming almost an 'International Crisis'. Thousands of homeless folks are bedding down outside luxury Offices housing world class successful Internet and Software companies, the contrast could not be more sharp. What has thrown so many folks onto the street is lack of affordable housing, rents have skyrocketed. Could someone from California explain what has gone wrong? As I recall, California had the best Social Housing in the world at one time, or is this just a Silicon Valley Housing crisis? Some of the homeless say it is not the lack of housing, but most jobs do not pay enough to cover rents.

Outbackjack: I am not sure.It's probably the same problem as London.Why not start a thread?

chronology: You are right Jack, same factors in London, but London does not have the booming Internet businesses California has, or the successful Software companies. No offence to the high end winners, they are enjoying the results of their hard work and imagination. But as they enjoy their success, fellow Americans are literally sleeping rough on the other side of their security fence. This 'Economic Apartheid' is no more acceptable than racial Apartheid or religious Apartheid.

Outbackjack: I am sure the big silicon valley companies are enjoying the results of their "hard work" whilst paying no tax and being based offshore.

The greedy bankers in London are worse though.All that bailout money AND increased bonuses for being grossly incompetent.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/mar/11/banking-bonuses-rise-city-of-london

chronology: So many homeless and so many Americans living in Tents outside shiney Business premises is not practical or sustainable. Maybe one Day Americans will get around to enacting Roosevelt's 'Four Freedoms'. The Four Freedoms are sat on a Shelf in Congress they have just not been voted on by Congress.

Outbackjack: So what about you Poms?

chronology: Because England is not a 'Democracy' and has no pretentions to be. Virtually anything goes in England. it is only in the last ten years that there has been even basic Human Rights Laws in England. Am not being critical of England, just answering your question. America was founded as an Republic where in theory anyway people were intended to have some basic equalities.

Outbackjack: I mean more about the London bankers and the gentrification of Londond.

chronology: I honestly know little about London these days Jack. In no way am I prejudice, but it is more of a Muslim city than an English one. More than half the population is Asian Subcontinent or Arab, or African. Islam is the biggest religion in London. If I met a Black Guy from Alabama, I would probably have more in common with him than most Londoners today. Soon London will be 60 percent Islam.

anym: I had a quick look at the beginnings of this thread and they made me want to puke. Just the same old I'm-right-you're-wrong fixed-attitude ideological crap, bouncing favourite hated buzzwords back & forth, that seems to be what the world substitutes nowadays for actually thinking co-operatively about problems and trying to suggest practical solutions.

Yeccchhh!

Maybe it improved later but I didn't have the stamina to find out.

Outbackjack: anym you obviously didn't spend long enough reading the thread you fence sitter.

LiptonCambell:

Outbackjack: Pure propaganda that video is.It ignores the fact The 85 Richest People In The World Have As Much Wealth As The 3.5 Billion Poorest.

Here is a video that spells it out:

SWlNE: You wouldn't by chance be a fan of "The Age of Uncertainty" would you, Outbackjack? -The book or the television series.

LiptonCambell: You still refuse to understand Jack- this isn't an issue of the number of people who are rich- it's the number of people who are POOR that is the issue. You can bitch and moan that so many people are super-rich, but the fact remains that less and less people live in poverty and more and more people have greater opportunities.

Is it great that a few are in charge of so much? No. But things are getting better, and the trend is going the opposite you want us to believe. You are the one who is spreading propaganda- you want people to believe that there is a mass increase of poverty. And there isn't.

Literally billions of people on this planet who never had a chance 50 years ago- who were doomed to die from aids and starvation- are now becoming doctors and owning their own business's.

Outbackjack: I have to admit Piggledy I had to Google that to find out what it was.I have heard of John Kenneth Galbraith and may have actually seen the show but I am not entirely sure and it would have been a while ago.

I have many years ago read the Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital as well as Proudhon and others who advocate a New economis system. It is hard to dispute a lot of Marx and Engels analysis of Capitalist society in the 19th Century as a lot of it applies to today. The problem lies in the solutions they offer to dismantle Capitalism.

McLipton said "You still refuse to understand Jack- this isn't an issue of the number of people who are rich- it's the number of people who are POOR that is the issue. You can bitch and moan that so many people are super-rich, but the fact remains that less and less people live in poverty and more and more people have greater opportunities."

It is the issue that is why this thread is called 'The World Has Divided Into Rich And Poor As At No Time In History' .

"Is it great that a few are in charge of so much? No. But things are getting better, and the trend is going the opposite you want us to believe. You are the one who is spreading propaganda- you want people to believe that there is a mass increase of poverty. And there isn't."

This depends on how your define things. Most of western manufacturing has been outsourced to the Third World. People who have lived in an agricultural society are given an opportunity to earn hard cash from this.This is the lure as they usually don't earn a lot of hard cash in their rural economy as bartering and swapping can redominate.These workers are exploited by being forced to work long hours in sweatshop conditions and charged a large chunk of their wage for lodgings.If you put this in a pure financial calculation then you could argue they have more money.Are they better off? Some would be whilst others live in polluted sewers in large cities and are more prone to overwork,industrial accidents and over work.

In neighbouring Indonesia sweatshop workers earn a few dollars a day making $200 Nike shoes.They generally eat twice a day if they are lucky and pay exorbitant rent for a shack.

Who can blame these people for wanting a lifestyle with all the mod cons that we take for granted.Capitalism through advertising promotes this image.Capitalism has also peaked in Western Countries as populations steady or decline. They need new customers to flog their wares to.Nowhere is this more obvious than Tobacco companies targeting the poor in Asia and Africa and worldwide smoking rates are increasing.

The thing that Neo Conservatives like you conveniently ignore McLipton is the fact that more and more wealth is being concentrated in the hands of the rich and super rich.

SWlNE: The series are available on youtube. I stubbled on it once. Worth watching.

chronology: Jack, with respect, you are putting all 'poverty' at the door of 'the Capitalist' . Fair enough, Americans today face a tough job market of low paid insecure jobs in the Service sector, and Privatisation of the U.S. Civil Service has led to a lowering of standards and wages and benefits.

But extreme poverty still has it's roots in all manner of upheavals. The most notable example being the Irish Potato Famine. U.S. Cities became instant slum lands as hundreds of thousands of Irish people flooded New York, Boston and New Orleans. Martin Scorsese described them best when he said; 'they were like refugees from a Nuclear war, they had nothing but the clothes on their backs' . American Black folks found them selves made unemployed in some places as the Irish would work for lower wages than they did. The Irish thought America was a veritable Paradice, Of the 200 odd U.S. Cavalrymen killed at the Little Big Horn, 70 were born in Ireland. With three meals a day and free uniforms and wages to spend each week, the Irish thought the U.S. Cavalry was heaven.

As for the rich getting richer, well Jack, the punitive tax rates of WW2 were never intended to be permanent. As far as rich folks were concerned they had paid their fair share to win the war, they had to wait for Ronald Reagan to bring taxes back to pre war levels. Today, rich folks are being asked to pay for infa structure work, and global security. It will be a tough sell for Congress.

Outbackjack: I am glad you mentioned the Irish potato Famine.This can be put squarely at the door of the Capitalist. Whilst the potato blight ravaged the food staple for the poor of Ireland millions of tonnes of wheat,corn,barley and other meats and food was exported out of Ireland solely for profit.

Over a million people died while some pieces of human excreta could turn a lousy buck.

davidk14: .

What sort of scares is this...

We all can debate the social economic challenges of today and yesterday, but what happens when the worlds population once again doubles? Can anything that we know today work when there are 14 billion on the planet? Fresh water will be the number one challenge. Food sourcing will be the second. Reminds me of the scare...Soilent Green.

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Outbackjack: U.N Projections for population growth say that the worlds population should peak around 2050 and then remain steady.
But does this really take into account that with modern advances in medicine that people could possibly living beyond 120 years old by the end of the century?