suicide- the unforgivable sin? (Page 4)

smoke4ever: how will you do that?

nellie77: I'll come and haunt you lol

smoke4ever: ugh

the real slim DEEPy: life is a gift, to squander a gift is abhorrent; however, if you are truly insane, i believe there will be mercy.l

Nicotina2: It's the persons choice to end their life. Who are we to judge when we know nothing of the circumstances.

mr1benjamim: I believe people make mistakes in their live

Zanjan: I'm coming in late to this topic so VirginKiss may not be reading this; however, someone who has the same questions might be.

The Bible doesn't mention suicide nor does it say it's a sin. Ordinary men have claimed it's a sin because they've imagined threats of damnation would be a deterrent to any of their own who got such ideas; they weren't thinking about God - just themselves as the survivors.

The worst sins have been listed in the scriptures - these are the things that kill the life of the spirit. If taking your own life is an unforgivable sin, don't you think it would have been mentioned many times? Even amongst all the selfish acts, described in all their lurid disgusting detail, suicide is not one of them. That's because it's not a selfish act.

Suicide is the result of grave personal weakness - sometimes, it's just self-punishment.

You get one shot at life on earth; during this short time, you have many lessons to learn, mistakes to fix, services to provide, and people waiting for you to help them. Cutting your life short deprives you of that one-time opportunity.

When your body dies, you continue to exist, along with the difficulties and regrets you've been experiencing - you enter the next world in the same state you left this one so, never think suicide will give you any advantage. There is no escape from your self.

For many, this earthly world is like a prison; when suffering greatly, it's natural to want to get out...but is it right to steal the jailer's keys and break out of your cell? No, the right thing is to do your time - then you've earned your freedom.

Those are the working principles. People who are in a terrible state of mind aren't thinking about those things; they cant see the future, they cant receive love, their thoughts are no longer sensible. Pain overwhelms them until the heart shuts down and they become indifferent to life, seeing no point to their particular place in it.

I'd be more concerned about a horribly botched attempt, as has happened to many, with an equally irreversible outcome. Well, it takes a tragedy to make people think in ways they never thought before.

In the end, once a person has lost the will to live, no one can bring it back..this is the sign God has granted them their death prayer and its not for us to argue, criticize or lash out at the deceased.

They don't need anyone to be angry at them as they still have to walk their spiritual journey until they heal.

As one who's had suicidal thoughts from an early age, for me, life was not a gift. It was a freakin' unjust torture, physically and mentally, year after year after year! I'll never tell you how beautiful life can be when it's not beautiful now; but I can tell you that if you decide against suicide and your life improves, you will gain control of those thoughts eventually. They hang around for a long time only because that's the residual effect of previous damage - scars take awhile to loose their colour and become smooth.

What saves religious people from suicide is they know God doesn't wish that for them so they don't want to displease God. They pray for strength and feel they receive it. This is what has kept me in the game so I could fulfill my dreams.

For atheists......well, they have nothing to help them. In my opinion, particularly for sensitive people, there's nothing crueler you can do to yourself than to disbelieve in God.

TacticalTurtle: Shit happens, and people have the right to quit life if they want. It's their's! Sin is just another tool to control the crowd, a set of man made moral boundaries.

TacticalTurtle: Sin is just another tool to control the crowd. It's a set of man made moral boundaries.

Zanjan: Some people are not well- informed of the meaning of the word "sin", which is a religious term.

A sin is a wrong you commit *against your own soul* - it's a deliberate betrayal of what you know is right. On the other hand, a wrong committed against someone else is called a crime.

If you don't know that something is wrong, your action is not a sin to you; therefore, you cannot betray your self on that. Sin hinges on one's *own* awareness..not somebody else's.

For example, *the seven deadly sins* are signs of self-destructive behavior - they're not moral laws, they're wisdoms.

Go ahead and eat yourself to death - your 900 pound frame isn't going to harm me in anyway, only you. You know the science behind that.

Zanjan: That said, some people will cite the Biblical reference of Samuel, falling on his own sword. This metaphor is still in use today when referring to those who, either accidentally or on purpose, misappropriate their gifts of skill and/or use their endowments as weapons.

To wit: Sadam Hussien and Osama Bin Laden directed their war machines in such a way their strategies backfired on them.

As for us peasants, who has never shot themselves in their own foot?

chattypaddy: if your talking about a person who is so lost and feels truly alone and takes their own life, i think the sin is what made them get that way. and if god or whoever feels fit to punish the lost then that is not someone i could follow. i your talking suicide bombers and the murder suicide people then it's hell for them

Yessica Ramos: When a wolf is caught in a trap, with no way out, it will chew its foot off to escape. If a person is caught in a trap with no way out, we can choose to end our life. If a person is in such pain and there is no way out, then it is a decision for them to make. And if God is so small minded and petty that he will put me in hell for ever, then that is not the God I believe in, she or he is just like the people I want to get away from.

Dulce Dreams: I'm with you Yessica. Sometimes suicide is the best option when all the other options are futile and hopeless. It's not the best first option to consider, but should remain a possible one.

Zanjan: There's no escape by suicide. Why? Because there's no oblivion after the end of this life. One enters the next world in the same state they left this one, no matter how they die.

People who commit suicide did so because they couldn't forgive themselves. Well, you can't buy a ticket to heaven - nobody ever has.

Whatever they thought they were escaping from, they'll still have to face and overcome. Unfortunately, it will be with less power to deal with it than they had while still in this world. If they only knew this!

Believe as you will - that's not going to help anyone in the next world. You don't know what's in the next world so, feeding people lies about it only makes things worse. That's not love.

Yessica Ramos: Zanjan...i'm glad you don't get it. For sumone in a place where death is the best way out, then to talk about forgiving themself or buying a ticket to heaven is not even close to what is going on...Sumtimes it is not the suicides that make the news, a bad grade, a break up...junk like that, it is getting away from a hopeless situation that you cant get out of.
You shouldnt judge and say the things you did without knowing the whole story. Its people like you that make us not want to tell.
Then again, I could be wrong, idk. its just how i feel.

chattypaddy: zanjan you are one of the lucky ones never to be lost in ones own skin, for the only color you see is black or to be in a room with a hundred people and feel so lost and alone. the words of forgiveness and hope are for the ones left behind because the dead are already at peace.
they don't die to find heaven they die to escape hell.

no one knows if there is anything after this life but if there is all no matter how they died everyone should have the chance at happiness and peace of mind.

every day some of people struggle to wake up to put on a happy face and go on, it is because they are stubborn or no matter how easy it would be to leave, they are determined not to be beaten by life.

we fight for our first breath and we continue to fight until the fight is gone.

p.s. if you are thinking about leaving this world find a friend to talk to it, really does get better, not saying it is all rainbow and lollipops but worth staying around i think, once you take that step it is final no do overs

Yessica Ramos: Chatty...you put it relly good. When each day is worser than the last but after awhile, being hurt and in pain is all you know and can expect, then why stay. I'm sad to see you get it, because you know this pain and it is not anything any one deserves.

Dulce Dreams: Yessi...u know I luv and care for you. We have talked a lot and I know wat happened. I know the pain and I'm always there for you. I'm really impressed that you are able to still worry about others and express yourself so well. You and chatty nailed it...zanjan is lucky to not know the depth of our hurt....a pain I could not wish on anyone. You and chatty rule... Luv you mija ..talk soon.

Yessica Ramos: Luv you too Dulce. Thanks for lissening and not judging. Im sorry you were hurt like that....I just dont get why guys think its ok to do those things. Hope we talk soon. xoxoxoxo <3

chattypaddy: i learned first you have to love yourself and no one will be able to cause you that much pain again. because now you know your worth it, and deserves all the good that life can bring which will make it easier when it gets a little dark

Zanjan: Yessica, apparently you've never committed suicide so you're not in a position to speak for those who have - that is, people you don't personally know.

Attempted (failed) suicides are a cry for attention - successful suicides aren't, they're a deliberate action to avoid facing the present and future.

I'm very familiar with both kinds, as I've known people who've lost loved ones this way or had to manage those who failed at it. A few personal friends of mine committed suicide and some in my own family. WE know those people first hand, very well. This hasn't escaped anyone. We know they weren't thinking of the survivors. WE know they had no intention of changing their mind. We know they had no courage to live.

I will say one has to be either too distant from the person or unobservant not to notice any signs.

Chatty: " zanjan you are one of the lucky ones never to be lost in ones own skin......."

One shouldn't make such grand assumptions. I've been there. Do you always paint everyone with the same brush? The dead are not at peace until they make peace - that's a fact.

You continue with your unfounded accusation that no one knows if there is anything after this life. Well, that's just false. The truth is YOU don't know. Many of us DO know.

Oh, and about pain and suffering - you have NO clue how bad it can get, lil' buddy! Neither do you young people - you haven't lived long enough to know depth and endurance. It's the storm that helps to make one stronger, and the learning how to get a reason to live makes one invincible.

FYI, I'm not suicidal.

Dulce Dreams: Wow zanjan...you are way to angry/defensive. I'm sorry you have lost friends because of this, but to make these generalizations are not helpful. When you said "The dead are not at peace until they make peace - that's a fact." How do you or anyone know? they are dead and not talking.
And to say any unsuccessful attempt is just a cry for attention is a huge mistake, mean, hard hearted and just wrong. Steping in front of a bus or a car, putting a gun to your head and it wont shoot cuz the gun is messed up or the bulets are old, jumping off a bridge but getting pulled out are not just cries for attention.
You take offense cuz we have said you don't know the pain, and the way you talk about it...you definitely dont. But living through the pain because someone close did is unbearable and I am sorry for you. But your anger and hurt is not helping those who are in pain and looking for relief.

Zanjan: Dulce, I'm not angry or defensive and I never take offense - those are the signs of maturity, by the way. Unlike young people, I don't dwell on past hurts and pain.

I have love and empathy for those in tough situations; for that reason, I won't stand down when posters coddle them, making things worse through their own ignorance, inexperience and platitudes. It's like the blind leading the blind.

You guys have made the generalizations - no medical or spiritual knowledge whatsoever. I made a factual statement, which you reject. Your choice to dismiss your elders out of hand.

" When you said "The dead are not at peace until they make peace - that's a fact." How do you or anyone know? they are dead and not talking. "

That very statement tells me you haven't been present while people are dying. One starts dying long before their body does. None are talking to **you** because you don't hear them....not yet, anyway. Heck, you're not even hearing me!

You know, you really underestimate people's intelligence. When they plan their suicide, they make sure it wont fail - they know how. The only thing that can prevent it is direct intervention by another person - they know this so they ensure that wont happen. For that reason, people who *decide* to commit suicide don't advertise their intention. They're well prepared.

I'm too old and experienced with life to make mistakes about people's intentions, Dulce. You're being far too fanciful and unrealistic with your hypothetical scenarios. Slow moving car, low bridge........right! People don't want to get permanently crippled/mangled.

I know of a case where that happened though. A guy killed his mother and brother; when police arrived, there was a gunfight. Finally, he put his own gun in his mouth and pulled the trigger, but a nanosecond before that, a police bullet hit his arm, throwing off his aim so he shot off half his face. What a mess. He spent the rest of his life in hospital.