We are ALL part of the SAME hypocrisy junyabee: No matter how rich and famous, or even philanthropic in our intents and actions, the cultural and social systems of which we are sustainers and enablers create the acute sufferings of structural disparities as well as functional unintended and intended adverse outcomes. Only a change in our attitude of our smug self-righteousness will end the paradoxes, contradictions, and hypocrisies we find in the results of our aspirations and strivings.... http://youtu.be/6LpE-5MWUZU http://www.classifiedads.com/announcements-ad152505629.htm  DIAMONDfire: hypocrisy is a funny thing. i suppose it creates a delusion if nothing else that seeds itself within ones psyche. and is inherently dangerous. DIAMONDfire: legacy of the end fundamentally nothing more than a lie boosted to the status of a god. DIAMONDfire: not god's wrath? that is something different? or perhaps god wouldn't have wrath for humans and wrath is something else? are we higher than gods? (Edited by DIAMONDfire)
junyabee: Another 'IMNHO': 'GOD' is a rhetorical construct of We-Humans to define that which runs autonomous to the conscious knowing will by we humans.. From the prospective, long-term and more altruistic sense of empathy found in the articulations of the Ol' Time Guy 'priests'-theists- are the 'Divine' sublimities of the so-called 'GOD'. DIAMONDfire: i'm not necessarily a believer but you mention secular thought being the mode of thought that is impacted and that causes change and liberation in ones life. and i understand humans define god in there own terms even in a deep sense. but if you had a dream for instance that god was in (which i have) it doesn't seem to make sense to say it is an outworking of the ego. what i am trying to convey is there seems to be a fate that is represented through prophetic dreams and the symbols that are used (god) are indicative of more of a cultural progressiveness. and that we pick up what is in our quarter so to speak. but it makes more sense to suggest on reflection that we are the subjects of experiments by a higher order. so in respect to non-secular patterns what are they? if not a nothing? do they only indicate a straying off the path? junyabee: Were your dreams of GOD, did they predate any external articulations of 'HIM'? One of my most profound dreams (at age 29-30) was of 'God' on his throne atop a hill in my neighborhood, as is eyes pierced my souls with judgemental disapproval of the licentious thoughts I'd been thinking just prior to witnessing his presence! IMNHO, it is learned. With some good functions and ends for we being less self-centered and more altruistic and empathetic for others. Beyond that quality (AND THE INEXPLICABLE SERENDIPITIES AN SYNCHRONICITIES) that have occurred randomly to me and others who MAY not be the even equal to the least worthy candidates for 'grace', WHAT is the proof of a 'GOD' beyond its expeditious rhetorical use??? DIAMONDfire: just listening to traffic, when the eagle flies: walking in the wind, the last line 'god knows why, why why.' John Barleycorn (must die) is a special song. how much spirit of the time (70s). there was a divine manifestation in all seriousness at the time of the dream i had. and i have since read of such very like experiences in the encyclopaedia of religion. to verify it to myself. the dream was equally powerful far in advance of anything i had experienced. but its all played out and i live in the shadow of it in the very most practical sense. i agree with your thoughts on the subject. but i have no desire to believe in god beyond the usual dream dreary state of thinking it. i think Steve Winwood answers the question with god knows why. but in saying that to understand involves an achieved state of mind or understanding. which has nothing to do with god in my view. beyond the advice he gives. if it is eternal I concede it could be but it still gets boring and life is far more interesting. so taken from a critical stance the written word can be that 'divine' and nothing will change that. in my case it hit me and i was alien to it. and i still feel the same way. martyrs and sinners who's who? i kind of sense there is something living underneath all of us and some people hit it more directly than others and still others in different ways but it is there. course to say so is to make it my own which doesn't reflect god in the usual sense. junyabee: "...there is something living underneath all of us and some people hit it more directly than others and still others in different ways but it is there. course to say so is to make it my own which doesn't reflect god in the usual sense. " That notion has been with me since my encounter as a 9 year old safety patrol on a cold, January high-noon, wind swept corner in Syracuse.. There's something out there that has little to do with us, by intention, but wouldn't hold back from an intervention in its incidental manifestation or a coincidental cross of the boundary between its dimension and ours.. In its dimension the omniscience and omnipotence we'd attribute to 'God' is an elemental feature of its qualities.. As a former owner of the album 'JOHN BARLEYCORN MUST DIE". though, for me, 'GLAD', 'FREEDOM RIDER', and the title song served my quest on that Saturday weekend in August in New Haven in 1970..(a tale in itself of 'sound and fury!). DIAMONDfire: it could be a manifestation of an ego in a desperate state. i concede thats a very common experience known in psychiatric practice. but setting that aside how absurd is the field of mental health in its own social nature. these experiences signify something far greater that fundamentally changes human to human dynamics. and sets people on their own collision course with fate or god. like walking through a door and never being able to turn back. but not due to the fault of ones own. something is there and that something has the final say. junyabee: "something is there and that something has the final say" Especially, when the manifestation was not a conceptualized thought of the subject but a manifestation subjected on the subject of that experience DIAMONDfire: i guess in the absolute sense it is a manifestation of cognitive dissonance? but the psyche is not necessarily cognitive in the way we think it. it is full of depth and complexity. junyabee: Interesting observation... I define 'the psyche' as the amalgam of both the sensory and the mental processes of the sensory. What ever was 'programmed' prior to the receipt of the sensory feed would affect the interpretation of that sensory feed, thus my use of 'cognitive dissonance' DIAMONDfire: i've read in the encyclopaedia of religion that smoking cannabis can be associated with rapid and booming heartbeat. This manifested in me. On one occasion i was so scared i had to lie down and try to calm it. i was about 16 or 17. but my heartbeat would not slow it only seemed to get worse. i got very scared. and just as it was happening all out of the blue i couldn't hear it anymore. i was listening intently. i thought i was dead. it lasted for about 8 seconds and out of the haze i reheard my heart beat at a regular pace. i got up and i wasn't sure if i'd just died. since then my heart has on occasion got a habit of sort of hitting the ground running like a parachuter. it will palpitate and give me a slight shock. it might happen once every couple of years. the corresponding dream was about the end of the world it ended with huge stained glass patterned windows of jesus's face and breast passing across my field of vision in the backdrop of what was space to me. there we're people running in the dream and i and one other was standing fast to the ensuing plague of locust covering the earth. (black dots issuing from the horizon). it was a bad time. i could have been killed and killed others very easily in a car crash. but it seems fate has bended to the chaos of the time. (Edited by DIAMONDfire) junyabee: LAST TIME YOU HAD AN EKG? Recurring dream (what i call a frequent-flyer event). I associate such with a past (or present) significant behavior/thought discipline. Variations could be cryptic messages or just symbolic variations of the same theme about yourself. DIAMONDfire: i've had ekg's and nothing has ever come up. but what you have written is significant in my experience. i am a diagnosed schizophrenic (medically managed). and i hallucinate frequently (audio and visual). i don't know where the audio hallucinations come from, but they are cryptic and themed to myself (very ordinary transmissions). in respect to the comment on a recurrent dream do you mean to say that experience with my heartbeat is like a dream is of dream substance and therefore effecting the minds activity in an uncanny way? schizophrenia is like groundhog day and i experience it so. but could that explain frequent hallucination? junyabee: Schizophrenia besides being a cognitive dysfunction could also be an idiosyncrasy of your own genetic expression that IS NOT needing adversary clinical attention. I had a physiological condition that went undiagnosed (PE/DVT) until I reached the point of passing out from clots effecting my breathing. Before that, I could wake up with a heavy pressure on my chest. On the positive side, my 'frequent-flyer dreams' are so routine, that the anomalies off the normal setting allows for an easy alert for my attention. Look at the more cryptic and symbolic dreams as extensions into the frontiers of your psyche's wanderings beyond your temporal-pedestrian routine DIAMONDfire: i think your right about the anomalies off the normal setting being the trigger for the dreams. visual hallucinations can be very pointed. you know they are there. but audio ones are more confusing. they are both thematic and cryptic. it is definitely about alertness, i have found the situation you are in holds the root cause or meaning. but in saying that it can lead to psychotic episodes (if things are out of hand) and that doesn't have a purpose other than to overcome. (Edited by DIAMONDfire) junyabee: Cherish the cryptic dream for they being 'WTF!' objects of extended reflection, which is most needed beyond the behavioral subjects getting their cues from tangible consumption.. DIAMONDfire: it doesn't seem to be the ego that is behind the dreams. ethics i would argue is objectivist so i thought is there any sense in it that can be discerned? if it's not the ego then what is it? a psychic function? |