to spank or not to spank? (Page 8)

cuarl
cuarl: No punishment in adulthood is not necessary if the kid understands what is wrong and right in the first place. That is why we explain and talk to the kid. If he gets a beating he/she just learn to avoid detection. The kid doesnt respect you, just fear your beating.
The kid must look up to you, understand and respect your wisdom then you are a successful parent.Beating is easy because it gives instant result, thats all.
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RequiemTenebris
RequiemTenebris: couldn't have put it better cuarl.
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shark angel
shark angel: cuarl i totally agree it's what i said before here if the child knows what is expected of them they will do it but if ya use spanking then you can expect lies. and if the kid knows it's wrong and does it anyway it's because they did it when you werent around to know about it so it's best not to use corpal
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KanZ
KanZ: To cuarl: sure, but I repeat, to spank is not necessary, sure the best way is explain, but you must explain when you punish, or it's totaly useless. I agree that makes only fear is a bad thing, but you have to take in count the personnality, for me to spank was necessary, because I crossed the limits (very "red" limits), and I respect my Dad very very much (he's successful parent even if he spanked me). And there are children with who it's not necessary at all, they stop bullshit before, so much the better.
And I repeat, a punishement need an explanation, it's sure.
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KanZ
KanZ: Sure you don't spank because the child has broken a glass if it wasn't purposly.
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cuarl
cuarl: You say it yourself. Beating your kid is not necesarry. Clearly the only reason you do it or will do it is because you were beaten as a kid yourself. When whole nations with millions of people can raise their kids without beating them then there is no way you can convince me that you are just "doing what needs to be done".
No, you are just beating your own kid to make your own life easier.


A physically abused wife would also say that she was hopeless and "crossed the limits" and that your dad/husband is doing it "for your own sake"

.
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PralineQueen
PralineQueen: I'm really conflicted on spanking. I want to to say sure, it's an effective method of discipline as long you don't go overboard. But where do you draw the line between discipline and abuse? The only reason I have any doubts is because of one particular incident when my dad spanked me extremely hard as a child. It was over something that I think was really stupid, and he hit me so hard that I peed on myself and couldn't even talk to ask him to stop so I could go to the bathroom. It was a horrible experience and exceeding the punishment that I deserved for what I did. I still think about it today and get upset about it. It was traumatic and because of that I think it classifies as abuse. But my parents are wonderful. They would never intentionally abuse me and I love them. I still have a little bit of a grudge over that but I know that my dad didn't realize what he was doing. But because of that, I question spanking now.
I think it comes down to whether you think you're able to spank without going too far. If you can spank your child without traumatizing them, then it's probably okay. I think spanking should be about scaring, not hurting.
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cuarl
cuarl: "If you can spank your child without traumatizing them, then it's probably okay. I think spanking should be about scaring, not hurting."

In other words:
Its okay to beat your kids as long as it doesnt leave a mark.
Its okay to threaten your kid with violence to make him do as you command.

That will set a great example on how our world and social life should work.
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KanZ
KanZ: Don't confuse beat and spank. So, you said I talked about myself, I think it's better because I quote a real exemple. So, I will give one exemple, my first was when I said to my Dad "Shut up" (it's more gross in french). So, you who are THE SUCCESSFUL PARENT PAR EXCELLENCE, what you will do if a kid who is 3 years old say to you shut up or fuck off and the kid don't care about what you say????
I know certain ppl who didn't receive limits are in prison now (I said CERTAIN, becareful, I saw that you read what you want understand, so bad!). And don't confuse a spank and a slap, a slap is really hurting, I don't accept it personnaly.
"When whole nations with millions of people can raise their kids without beating them", in your dreams, because ppl don't have to think like you, hopefully I think.
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PralineQueen
PralineQueen: Way to just pretend that I said stuff I didn't, cuarl.
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shark angel
shark angel: i dont see how this should be a arguement if we spank our kids because we were when will the cycle end i never once spanked my child and guess what they behave and do as they are told all i did was time out and toook thinkgs away and made them earn their stuff back so see spanking is not the only thing this is to do
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cuarl
cuarl: Beating, slapping, spanking. Its all the same thing. You use violence or threats of violence to get your way and its there its wrong already.
Well KanZ what do you do if you meet a random person that say "Shut up" or "Fuck off"? Use violence to silence them? Hopefully you use your head and your mouth and you ought to do the same with a kid.
In my dreams what? In several nations which adds up to hundreds of millions of people it is not legal with quite severe punishments for physical child abuse.

EclecticOwl:
No, you said its okay to beat your kid as long as they are not traumatized. I dont know in what way you will messure that? But as long as it doesnt leave a mark(body or mind) its okay to beat them. Thats what you said.

You also said it should be about scaring not hurting. I.e you are talking about threats of more violence in order to get your wish yes?


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KanZ
KanZ: Your child is not a random person as far as I know. Anyway your a kind of atoyala, you don't know discuss, and can't accept that ppl doesn't have your opinion. Personnally, I think to spank is not bad, but have ppl who don't want use, I accept it, I just used argument about my opinion, they use other argument, even if I don't agree with it, no problem, after they what ppl do what want (within reason, of course).
Besides ppl don't repeat what their parents did, my dad was beaten with a belt (a pure bullshit). He never beat me with a belt or anything, just a spank when I was abusing.
So, if you can't accept there are ppl who received spanks in there childhood and say they are not traumatised (like me for example), it's a pure denial, and we can't do anything for you cuarl. The ball is in your court now.
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RequiemTenebris
RequiemTenebris: Eclectic Owl, that sounds REALLY bad, no parent should ever do that to their kid. Unless they haven't tried to correct their mistake, you have every right to still hold a grudge against them. I'm acually surprised you would vouch and support their wrongdoing by agreeing it's cool to hurt kids. Because to a kid, there's no such thing as a "slap", spank", or "discipline", it's all the same pain.
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KanZ
KanZ: Where do you see that she wrote it's cool to hurt kids?? Don't invent what ppl say, be objective!
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RequiemTenebris
RequiemTenebris: "I think it comes down to whether you think you're able to spank without going too far. If you can spank your child without traumatizing them, then it's probably okay. I think spanking should be about scaring, not hurting."

That's where, I just abbreviated it. If you need anymore clarification, just ask.
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PralineQueen
PralineQueen: I think you should look up the definition of "abbreviate" in the dictionary, Requiem. You seem to be confused.
I'm sorry that you two misunderstood what I meant. I guess I should have worded it differently but I didn't mean that it's okay to beat a child. There is a difference between spanking and beating, in my opinion, and I was talking about spanking which is NOT beating or abuse.
I don't know if you realize this, but you're perfectly able and welcome to disagree with me without being rude about it.
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KanZ
KanZ: To me, spank and beat is not the same, spank is not with a huge force, it's just a sanction, beat it's really mad way, it's in order to hurt, spanking is in order to give a sanction only (it's a failure observation, but necessary sometimes when the child continues to provocate his parents even if they warned before) . But apparently there are ppl who don't make difference btw these. Too bad .
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cuarl
cuarl: Kanz you say I dont know how to discuss. You are the one that just write this and that about HOW i write arguments. You are supposed to meet my arguments with counter arguments. That is discussion. You did one:
Kids are not random people. Yes, so what did that brilliant statement have anything to do with what I said? You ask me how I would behave in a certain situation and I answered you with a counterquestion if you would slap/spank/beat a random person or lets say someone in your office that offend you. No you would probably reason with him or use punishments such as not acknowledge him or help him. And there is your answer on how to act with your kid.

Spanking/Slapping/Beating:
EclecticOwn just wrote a storry that she was _spanked_ until she peed herself and it was a traumatic experiece(ofc). Yet its called "spanking extremely hard" because its a parent beating their own kid.
Did you react to that and thought, "that is not spanking that is beating!" No, you said nothing and neither did anyone else. Spanking is not defined by pain its defined by parent using violence on their kid in order to make them do as they are told.
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KanZ
KanZ: She said it was more beating than spanking (she precised that her dad, probably, didn't take conscience about it and he's a good parent anyway), I will not repeat what she says. Her! She's clear contrary to you. You, you confuse everything (random ppl as kid) in order to prove to yourself that you're right. You have the conviction that spanking is bad, but you never thought about it, that's why you use argument but fool arguments that come from nothing.
I may accept another opinion but that means REAL AND REASONABLE ARGUMENTS.
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PralineQueen
PralineQueen: I honestly am perfectly willing to accept and respect an alternative opinion from mine, and don't have any desire whatsoever to argue about it... I just posted my opinion because the topic asked for it. Didn't intend to start a debate or to be misunderstood. I only ask that the same basic human respect be given to me as I give to others.
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cuarl
cuarl: Well you might want to go back and repeat to yourself what she wrote. And again you do not meet any argument just try to denounce the value of them. I have no idea what you are trying to do, this is not going to convince me of anything its just weird.

No one is disrespecting you EclecticOwl
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KanZ
KanZ: The goal wasn't to convince you, in my opinion sure it's impossible because you're narrow minded I think.And if I never use argument, think about yours (then are nothing). And if it's weird you may ask if it need to be more clear, and without say to everyone they are wrong.
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cuarl
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KanZ
KanZ: This is exactly what WE DON'T ACCEPT! That is beating! Not spank without force, AS I RECOMENDED!
So read AGAIN! What we WROTE, because I think you have serious problem for COMPREHENSION OF OTHER PPL.
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