Fight The Power or Be The Power? (Page 7)

Azathoth: I agree, they should. I mean, why not just give IDs for voting only? I realize that the DMV-issued ones serve multiple purposes and cost money to make. (labor and materials, etc) . Still: since we register to vote, through the DMV, why not simply provide a voter card. Some states do.

ShawnXx: Tennessee also gives you the option to get voter ID cards bu they aren't the only cards accepted to vote and other states do the same.

harlett anathema: don't any of You know that up until the 1970's you could walk into any states social security office and ask for social security # without having any form of id...you were able too make up a name while you stood in line...

Azathoth: Alright, we're agreed. So should it be made federal law to have these voter card systems utilized across the US? Maybe with anti-fraud measures like watermarks and such?

OCD_OCD: I think a voter card should be a photo ID. People shouldn't be allowed to give their card to anyone and vote by proxy. That would just not be right.

OCD_OCD: I think that would be a great idea. However, the problem there is that all of the states would have to adopt it....states' rights and all.

lavendar_star: Good thread Sosweetlyso, I personally agree in part with you, OCD and Azartoth hence why I am on the center of the political landscape. I will response to the question in relation to my own country which does have similar issue with the US.

I dont have the personality to be outright leader but I can do leadership qualities so I would go with fighting for my freedom and rights and those of others.

I think the UK surprisingly has higher unemployment then the US and we our also in financial crisis which to my knowledge was caused by similar factors to the US except for the whole. I do think that welfare has become for some more of a life style however, we have to put that in the context of social inequalities, less availability to a decent standard of education i.e. depending on where you live might determine the quality of the school as well as other factors like poor housing etc. I have no problem with social programs as long as they are getting to the groups that need them and are achieving results. I should also mention that people are human beings i.e. people can be demotivated, lack self confidence etc and do not live in perfect world and have perfect parents.

Where is the proof of this so called voters fraud suspiciously focused on just African Americans lol and excuse me I am black and my mother who worked all her life as did my grandparents encouraged me to be hard working and do better then them. In the UK certain groups are not as demonised and stereotyped as seems to be in the US when it comes to race.

As for fraud I think its should be tackled in the welfare system its shame that is not the case when it comes to financial institutions or corporations most of whom never see a prison cell.. I think work needs to be pay and that more trade Universities (which were closed down in the UK) are needed and good education in schools.

harlett anathema: federal id.... requiring fingerprints and photo..would cut welfare fraud in half... and voter fraud....but it is racist too suggest enforcing such a id...

Azathoth: I think the federal government can oversee it after a bill to do so is passed. That would still leave the states to work out further intricacies.

Azathoth: Harlett, no it isn't. Minorities have no issues with picture IDs used for the sole purpose of voting. I'm not saying that only minorities live in inner cities. I'm saying that certain demographics are punished if they have to pay for having said ID. I believe we all have come to an understanding on this. I thought we did anyway.

OCD_OCD: Hmmm. I think I'll write my state senator about that. I would hope that you do, too. I'm also going to ask why neither Dems, Independents or Repubs have brought up a bill to remedy this problem.

Azathoth: I will, OCD. Good points.

Sadly, I think voting systems and their groups surrounding it are influenced by K Street lobbying firms. That's likely why. Money talks and full representation, all too often walks.

OCD_OCD: Lavendar, what you said about education is a reason that I honestly believe in the voucher system. Each child is a voucher. The parents are free to choose which school their children should be in. The better schools will benefit from their educational history and will then receive more money so that they can expand.

Children who are less inclined to go to college could transfer to a trade school. Not all children are going to succeed in every subject or every discipline, but we have a lot of kids who are square pegs that we are trying to put into round holes.

If a child wants to go to a college prep school, then that's great. But there are more children out there who are put into the educational system who have no desire to go to college and yet their curriculum is meant to get them into college. I can see why these children give up and end up getting no education at all.

Give the parents and the children what they want. Let them get the education they want. If a kid wants to come out of high school as a certified LVN, or a welder, or an automotive technician, then why not?

harlett anathema: i am not suggesting just for voting.....i think we need a fresh new form of federal id for all of us.....that identify's us.....ALL.....has several symbols etc on it.. like we passed the states driving test we are from...and has OUR fingerprints and photo's on them..

OCD_OCD: I loathe lobbyists. Loathe them.

ShawnXx: Thank you Lav you have every right to voice your opinions on this subject as anyone else. Poor economy is a world wide problem and some of same problems we have here are problems for other countries. Everyone has their opinions and misconceptions about the different classes and those are huge bumps in progress. Thank you for pointing out the rediculous issue about African Americans being the main focus of voter fraud.

OCD_OCD: I'm OK with the photos, but I'm not so sure about the fingerprints. With the technology we have today, I don't want my fingerprints to be anywhere except on my fingers. Having my fingerprints on a card seems unwise.

Azathoth: We shouldn't give up on public schools, though. My late mother, my brother, my father, 2 aunts, 3 cousins, and many friends were/are educators in the public school systems. They aren't hip on the staleness that's in the system, but they are still warriors for the cause of good affordable public education.

Also, in my state of Tennessee, college preparatory classes are an option for public high school students...and without having to go private.

SoSweetlySo and I have to run to town. Please, be good and have fun. Be back soon.

PS- Lav, it's awesome to see you again.

lavendar_star: I agree with most of what you put OCD, but a minority of parents are uneducated or are uninterested in what the best school would be for their child or sadly just dont care which is why generational with welfare and underachieving problems persist for some. However, the rest spot on, when our former Prime minster Tony Blair was in power he said he wanted 50% of people to go to university which backfired big time as not everyone is made for academic subjects and the job market was over saturated with graduates and now many cant find decent jobs. I just think the issue is that some bright kids from poorer/disadvantaged backgrounds are not giving the chance either failed by their parents or their school to have the opportunity to go to university etc compared to their middle class counterparts.

harlett anathema: we don't need excuses from folks for id fraud....i wouldn't want too be the one who had too answer for why so & so was receiving two welfare checks.. when one profile was on record.... a little accountability go a long way....

OCD_OCD: And good school teachers should be compensated properly. They shouldn't have to put up with students who have no desire to learn and leave them with no ability to control them. If a student is there doing something that they are interested in and have a future in, I think the control and discipline issues would be drastically reduced.

Just as you choose your major in college, kids should get a basic education and then be allowed to branch out into a more diverse program that interests them and meets their abilities and expectations.

lavendar_star: lol in the UK some kids are smartarses and they talk about their human rights for the teachers not to discipline them and generally western culture may have empowered children too much and some kids do not value their access to free education which they dont have in other countries.

I should say some kids who act out do it because of trouble at home or learning disability so I'm bit caution with not teaching children who are disruptive as it maybe a symptoms of something else but if they are just being disruptive for no reason then maybe a specialist school should be the answer. Its difficult because in the UK I'm sure its the same in the US, state schools have bigger class sizes and less qualified teachers then private or independent schools.

The last paragraph I agree completely one sizes doesn't fit all defo.

Thanks Azathoth and sosweetlyso .

harlett anathema: Hi Lavendar.... been awhile ......You sound wonderfully happy & content...

lavendar_star: Hiya too Harlet I'm cool n fine too.