Fight The Power or Be The Power? (Page 5) harlett anathema: some lies are most destructive then others... not having the where with all too speak about id fraud and the consequences it has brought down on all of us too bear.. is a conservative flaw.....  Azathoth: But there are many facets to being conservative. Fiscal, social and religious...or a combination. harlett anathema: y would you have a problem......with having too know what the consequences for some actions of your choosing can cost you and the rest of your life.... before you made the choice...and why would you want too give any more money too those who are clearly seriously irresponsible with it.... harlett anathema: i don't get... how taking a bigger chunk of rich man's/woman's wealth will change the results of being fiscally irresponsible  OCD_OCD: It's called "other people's money". I have no problem with paying taxes for social programs as long as those social programs are not crippling them and killing their desire to become independent. Our social programs are killing the initiative of the lower classes to improve themselves through education and work. There is enough money to keep them at a certain level of comfort, yet not enough to become comfortable. Minimum wage jobs, which is where EVERYONE generally has to start, brings in less money than being on government programs. What's the incentive to get off the programs? There is none. Education is free. People need to take advantage of it. Azathoth: Education, especially higher education, isn't free. It wasn't free for me and it still isn't. My son is in high school. We've paid lots of fees. Now, to educate oneself on facts: the Internet, TV, books from the library...none of that is free either. Again, one must spend money to make it. As far as minimum wage: it has become a bit more fair. But if compared to costs, like cost of living for example, it still isn't enough to make a real living. There are still reasons for social programs like EBT. There are still wage-earners that fall under the poverty level. Lets not think that rich people work any harder than those on minimum wage or those considered middle class. Azathoth: Irresponsibility isn't just a virtue of the rich. It's an obvious misconception that those needing government assistance are milking the system, drug addicts, lazy, uneducated, etc. It isn't fair to assume that...just because Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Glen Beck, and every other conservative pundit says so. There are, in fact, many highly educated hard working and clean folks trying to make a buck and coming up short. OCD_OCD: The amount of grants for low income and minorities is incredible. I, also, had to work and pay for my education while a friend of mine who is bi-racial had lower test scores and a lower GPA received a full ride at the university we went to. While her father is an executive with a large firm, the fact that she was bi-racial was a key factor. It's just a fact of life. There are quotas and that's something we have to accept. I still worked and went to school and it didn't kill me, but it would have been nice to have had more help, particularly considering my GPA and test scores. But...c'est la vie. While rich people may not work any harder, they might work smarter. It was drilled into all of us that we were expected to get a degree and that there wouldn't be any tolerance for not doing so. We had the brains, we could work, and we were expected to. The desire to succeed doesn't just happen. It starts from parental expectations when you are young. No excuses for bad grades. When a kid is in school, that is their JOB and it should be taken seriously. Learning to budget the money you have is also important and that is certainly not taught to many people now. It's beg, steal or borrow to get what you want regardless of whether you earned it or whether you can pay for it. People like that will get no sympathy from me. Azathoth: Also, I've never met a person on government assistance that was all of those bad things conservative pundits and right wingers state. That's a BIG misconception based on ignorance, tbh. To say that "welfare" pays better than minimum wage is completely wrong. Perhaps that is being confused with unemployment and disability? Those are far removed from this "welfare" debate. FAR removed. harlett anathema: you know.. i am of the mind.... that one of next huge scandal that will rock the states.. is how many on line college cheats.hold college degree's. . and are seriously incompetent..to hold positions those degree's entitled them too.... your mixing oranges and apples.....your honest effort verses the fraudulent free loaders... do you actually think the free loader will not expect more be given too them self.. and kept from you.. do you forget whose in those office positions agreeing... Azathoth: Ok. Not everyone can get grants and/or scholarships. Not all poor people are in a racial minority. There are poor white men, too. I cannot follow this argument seriously. OCD_OCD: No, that's a particular concern by single parent households, particularly women. "* To match the value of welfare benefits, a mother with two children would have to earn as much as $36,400 in Hawaii or as little as $11,500 in Mississippi. * In New York, Massachusetts, Connecticut, the District of Columbia, Hawaii, Alaska, and Rhode Island, welfare pays more than a $12.00-an-hour job--or more than two and a half times the minimum wage. * In 40 states welfare pays more than an $8.00-an-hour job. In 17 states the welfare package is more generous than a $10.00-an-hour job. * Welfare benefits are especially generous in large cities. Welfare provides the equivalent of an hourly pretax wage of $14.75 in New York City, $12.45 in Philadelphia, $11.35 in Baltimore, and $10.90 in Detroit. *In 9 states welfare pays more than the average first-year salary for a teacher. In 29 states it pays more than the average starting salary for a secretary. In 47 states welfare pays more than a janitor earns. Indeed, in the 6 most generous states, benefits exceed the entry-level salary for a computer programmer. The authors conclude that if Congress or state governments are serious about reducing welfare dependence and rewarding work, the most promising reform is to cut benefit levels substantially." http://www.cato.org/research/pr-nd-st.html harlett anathema: poor Caucasians are not pitied...nor are their children...nor have they ever been....they were expected too get up off their tails and work inspire their children to do better then them self... Azathoth: It's hard to legislate the bad apples. It's hard to pass laws to target a certain group. In Tennessee, several years ago, the state-run health care (Tenn Care) was completely haulted, in order to restructure and rid itself of fraud. Thousands died in the process because they weren't covered and couldn't afford the treatment. Should we tell their families that they were sucking taxpayers dry and shouldn't whine about their loved ones dying? Since then, it was shifted over to federal coverage (Ameri Group) and has covered more and the high numbers of deaths have dwindled. Azathoth: Yeah, the Cato Institute is a libertarian construct. Of course they will state points against social programs. Personally, (though, I sometimes copy and paste) I'd prefer to see what folks actually believe and not what others believe. That's my preference, anyway. OCD_OCD: I've already said what I believe, then I've followed with information on why I hold those beliefs. I'm not sure what it is you want. harlett anathema: how is it possible that twice as many African Americans that live in several PENN. STATE counties...voted...the answer has too be... fraudulent id..... harlett anathema: excuse me for  ...but perhaps it's time... to do the mark of 666...and force folks into spanking brand new federal fingerprint & photo id's.... Azathoth: Say things from the heart, is all I ask. Harlett, I cannot even TRY to touch that declaration of yours. | Off Topic Chat Room Similar Conversations |