Did Aliens Do It? (Page 2)

LiptonCambell: Geeze, so many videos! makes it hard to comment on them....

I watched the third from the top("types of aliens"- the first is a ripoff of the aliens from the tv series "V"- the second, Annuaki, is just the nonsense promoted by the idiot Sitchin, who believed mistranslating an old language and completely raping their culture made him profound- the next three are actually characters from Stargate SG-1, and the one after I noticed the image they used was lifted DIRECTLY from Star Trek Enterprise.....that's not an original image- that's a clip from a tv show.

After that, I stopped watching.

What makes me wonder about the types of aliens presented- Reptilie-like, human-like, insect-like- why is it all of these aliens look just like creatures already here on Earth? I mean, we look back in time at the species that once existed thousands of years ago, and it blows our minds- but the aliens that are visiting us all look like the kinds of animals you can find at a local pet store? You don't find that lends to a level of bullshit?

I mean, come on- every single one of those aliens all look alike- they all stand upright, with eyes facing forward, with toes and fingers and shoulders and two arms and two legs and oftentimes two eyes. If aliens did exist, they wouldn't appear like us- they wouldn't appear like anything we've ever seen before. The only reason why they appear human in television shows and movies is because of lazy writing and cheap special effects, because it's easier to present a create as intelligent if it looks just like us.

And the fact that these aliens are so connected to popular media, and that it makes sense for the media to present them as human-like(easier and cheaper to produce), but it doesn't make sense the other way around, that aliens just happened to appear like reptiles despite existing in an entirely different environment, just screams that these aliens are bullshit.

ghostgeek: You make a valid point Lipton. Our conception of aliens, whether popping out of spacecraft and abducting people or filling up an episode of Star Trek, mostly seem to be variations on the human form. It is similar to the way we conceive of gods. They are mostly human in form, with some animal attributes thrown in for good measure. I guess it is extremely hard to visualise something that has never been experienced so we fall back on what we know. There is though a danger that we start to reject the possibility that aliens, if they exist, might bear a passing resemblance to ourselves. The only way to know for sure what an alien might look like is to go and bag one. Let's hope they don't object.

By the way, sorry about the videos but I couldn't resist. Such pretty pictures.

ghostgeek: How much should we credit to aliens? What about the notion that they not only created us humans but actually created the earth as well. Is that possible, like in The Hitchker's Guide to the galaxy? Somebody out there on the web has at least asked this question:

"So my question to the scientific community and other reasonable thinkers is 'What if Earth is a artificial planet with internal systems so complex it it beyond our understanding? What if it was constructed millions of years ago by a super advance race?' If for example this was true, then aliens, the missing excess heat of earthquakes, the new theory of rogue planets and so much else could be explained.

I mean when you come to think of it the chance that Earth had everything necessary to jump start life is almost impossible. Millions of factors could have happened to stop life but somehow we managed to beat the odds. And these so called Alien sightings dating back to ancient times, what if they're our 'creators' of some sort, maybe what our gods were. And this whole thing about rogue planets now? Planets not captured in the gravity of a sun but flying around in Space. What if those aren't Planets after all but other artificial planets or even something like the Death Star, ha ha. I'm just saying."

[ https://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110620121632AAxFxIw ]

lori100: Could be....many who have had encounters with the greys have had some belief that they are us in the future. One lady who was horrified by aliens that looked very much like trolls told them..."You're hideous!"...one of the troll aliens told her..."My dear...one day you will look exactly like us...".

ghostgeek: Yes, I've heard say that they might be from the future. Not sure if anybody has claimed they are from the past, though. Once you bring time travel into the equation both are possible.

LiptonCambell: But look at the history of this planet- the bizarre and strange creatures that existed long before mankind- humanoid lifeforms are the vast, vast minority.

To suggest that aliens appear like us, after 99.99% of all life appears differently, is extremely egotistical. Sure, they COULD, but odds are far more likely they appear as something inconceivable

ghostgeek: Let us be clear here. When we talk of aliens we're referring to intelligent creatures with abilities not dissimilar to our own, are we not? We may envisage them as green with bug eyes, or endow them with other discordant characteristics, but we expect them to think and act much as we do. In other words we conceive of aliens as being the outcome of a process of development that parallels our own. Like insects, pterosaurs, birds and bats acquiring wings because they're needed to fly, we assume our alien friends will evolve complex brains and limbs that can grasp things because we see these things as necessary for thinking beings. We may well be wrong about this but it's what our experience teaches us, because it's all we know. After all, it is the humanoid form that has come to dominate this planet so it must have something in it's favour. .

LiptonCambell: Bu the human form DOESN'T dominate this planet- microbes do.

I just find that suggesting that the human shape is the only way for intelligent life to form- or even suggesting that intelligent life is the supreme point of all lifeforms- kinda misses the point being made with our understanding of evolution.

ghostgeek: Do humans or microbes dominate the planet? Here is how I see it. Microbes might one day kill us all off but at the present time we have the potential to decimate life on this world, maybe even destroy it completely. The fear of global nuclear war may have receded but it remains a threat. There is also the environmental degradation of which we hear so much nowadays, including climate change. Add to that the way the human race has changed the surface of the earth, its impact on all living things, how increasingly we shape the destiny of the globe, and I see no reason to deny that we dominate this pretty little planet of our's.

Now, turning to alien life, the conceivable possibilities are seemingly endless, agreed. We cannot even guess what might be out there. Maybe giant gas-filled balloons or beings of pure energy. Possibly even something that lives in space and drifts between worlds. That doesn't mean we can't speculate as to what an intelligent life form might look like. The sort of being we could envisage constructing a spacecraft to visit us. What we commonly term an "Alien". It would seem reasonable, from our own experience, that such a creature would have a brain, a complex one. We would expect it to have the ability to move around, to perceive its environment and to communicate. It would also seem likely that it would possess the capability to manipulate physical objects. These things might be achievable by the power of mind alone, but if not we are left with something that sounds a lot like ourselves. So, if the functions required of our alien are similar to the ones we possess, why then shouldn't we expect evolution to furnish it with a body plan that mirrors our's. As I pointed out above, the power of flight has been achieved independently, at least four times, on our world by the evolution of wings. Why, therefore, should we not expect intelligent beings, evolving independently on other worlds, to end up having characteristics similar to our own?

LiptonCambell: >>> The fear of global nuclear war may have receded but it remains a threat.

Granted.

>>> Add to that the way the human race has changed the surface of the earth

I gotta disagree with you entirely. Without microbes, our atmosphere wouldn't have formed- They literally, over a period of a billion years as they slowly spread and evolved to every corner of our planet following their creation, terraformed the planet- they altered the temperature, helped develop our ozone layers, and altered the very chemistry of the air itself.

They have a profound effect on Earth. Without humans, life would continue without missing a beat- but without microbes? Earth would devolve into chaos.

Add on top of that the personal level of them helping our bodies run properly, it's pretty clear -We need them. They don't need us.

>>>That doesn't mean we can't speculate as to what an intelligent life form might look like.

I agree. But when the list of aliens that people present as "likely true" can be summed up with "like humans, but with scales for skin", or "like humans, but with a bugs face", or "like humans, but entirely Aryan"- that's a pretty narrow view considering the vastness of life on Earth. I mean, the intelligence of dolphins, parrots, pigs, and cuddle fish have extreme potential- all of them are completely unlike the typical "like humans", but all of them are examples of intelligent life evolving outside our simian line. For example, the cuddle fish's neurons are spread throughout it's entire body- so much so that if you chop off a limb, the limb will continue to think, collect food, and try to bring it to where it believes the "mouth" is in relation to where it should've been to the body.

And these are just examples of animals that exist today- there are quite literally billions of other species out there....

>>>Why, therefore, should we not expect intelligent beings, evolving independently on other worlds, to end up having characteristics similar to our own?

some characteristics would be a given, yes. A brain large to the proportion of the body, for example- but come on- that video showed pictures of vikings, and said they were aliens. Those aren't similarities to us. Those are identical.

And, as I've pointed out- you can have all of those characteristics, and still have a drastically different lifeforms. You gave the example of wings forming independently- but while they used the same method, they were drastically different from one another. Butterfly wings are not the same as dragonfly wings, who are not the same as bird wings.

Same concept, different result

ghostgeek: Microbes are important, at least on earth, I can certainly agree with that. Oxygen is also important and so is water. For that matter, where would we be without sunlight or the minerals in the ground, or a host of other things? Does any of this really matter though when considering the nature of a creature that conceivably might build a spaceship and travel in it to Earth? My view is that microbes are most unlikely to get out the spanners and start building machines. So what manner of creature might construct the proverbial "flying saucer"? Intelligent, yes I think we can agree on that. Does that mean dolphins may start to construct cars to run along the seabed? Not likely, because their anatomy precludes that sort of ability. They have no hands. Maybe a creature with tentacles might develop the necessary dexterity but it hasn't happened on Earth as far as I know. I hope you see where this is going. Most of the creatures on Earth, just about every one barring ourselves, lacks the physical ability to make, for example, a watch. Our putative technologically adept creature must have an anatomical plan that allows for locomotion and the fine manipulation of objects. Yes, one can conceive of a being with, say, six legs and two arms, or some other combination of these two elements. Possibly, there could even be a creature with fins and arms. Maybe the Centor is out there on some other planet, trotting around with a bow in its hands, but not on Earth. Here, nature has declined to make such a cumbersome beast. Why therefore should we expect nature to be more forthcoming on another planet when our experience shows it doesn't have to be?

sixty 9 yrs of wanda: thank you for oannes story - very enjoyable

i jus lov the whole aliens thing . . . it's like some kind of tacky modern day attempt at myth - someone should develop a mt. olympus for the aliens and an array of alien gods and goddesses to frolick about amongst us mortals . . . i might attempt it were i not so lazy minded

ghostgeek: Thanks Zoey. Now, as to this story of your's, a couple of stiff drinks should get you in the mood. Either that or some prune juice.

ghostgeek: Environment must play its part as to whether intelligent aliens develop the technological ability to traverse space. Conditions may just not be suitable for the construction of machinery of any kind. For example, a water world, lacking dry land, would surely preclude the discovery of fire. Here on Earth fire is totally central to our technology. Without it there would be no metallurgy and very little chemistry. In addition, how would electricity be discovered, something crucial to our modern way of life? However intelligent an alien "Flipper" might be, living in an ocean of water would not be conducive to the begetting of an Industrial Revolution. Dolphins here on Earth don't construct steam engines for a reason. It's too damn wet to get a fire going at the bottom of the sea. I see no reason why the same wouldn't hold on another wet and watery world, hence I don't expect aliens with fins will be coming to visit us. That means our alien visitor will most probably be land dwelling. Now here on Earth most land dwelling animals have legs, even things that fly, so it shouldn't be asking too much that our alien critter also has legs. Yes, there are things like snakes, but they lack any form of limb whatsoever. Not useful if a hand is required. So, following a simple line of reasoning, the morphology of our space faring alien is beginning to resemble our own.

ghostgeek: Time for a little mood music.

LiptonCambell: >>> That means our alien visitor will most probably be land dwelling.

I think that's rather dismissive. There are certainly alot of ways a creature could develop intelligence and reason- fire isn't a necessity on that part. Not to mention, with undersea vents, it's not impossible to have a great source of heat in the darkest depths of the ocean.

If we're talking strictly the ability for life to form intelligence, I'd say marine life has a greater chance than most. Life, more than likely, originated in the water, meaning any lifeforms from the oceans had a literal billion year head start. The world is 3/4 water, most of it unexplored, and so deep that, at points, if you were to drop Everest into it, it wouldn't even reach the surface. And there is a great diversity of life in the oceans, which the surface pales in comparison.

Insisting that a creature needs fingers to be intelligent is really closing yourself off from great possibilities.

>>>So, following a simple line of reasoning, the morphology of our space faring alien is beginning to resemble our own.

Hardly. You've concluded that, for intelligence, a life form needs legs and hands(to which I disagree, but whatever)- what about crabs? They have both hands and legs, but are drastically different from us. What about bats? Again, legs and hands- ants? flys? hell, damn near every insect and spider. Bears, squirrels, chipmunks, lemurs, most lizards and amphibians- hell, even some fish have hands. I would bet 25-70% of all animals have legs and hands of some sort.....but we're the only life to reach this intelligence? Clearly there must be alot more to it than that.

And you mentioned environments, but once again, only looked at whats around you. People have speculated that life could survive in the sulfur clouds of Venus. In Jupiter, there are actual oceans of liquid just suspended between gases that life could possibly survive- and on the moon titan, it's so cold that methane takes the form of a liquid- and entire oceans of methane cover it's surface. These kind of environments would lend to a species that would be entirely unlike our own- one that has adapted to a different set of conditions than the horrible conditions that we've adapted to billions of years ago on this planet.

One thing that makes me doubt these kinds of videos even more is exactly the issue of environment- that it is insanely unlikely that a creature, from the other side of the galaxy, who developed in a place with different chemicals in the air, with different adaptations and tolerances- where they have grown to survive in -2000 Celsius temperatures, and swam in lakes that would destroy our cells in an instant, would be walking around on our planet. It would be a coincidence of monumental proportions that these creatures just happened to have evolved in the IDENTICAL environment, especially given how rare we are finding that our environment is, and how much variation it has had over the years/

ghostgeek: It's quite possible to speculate that intelligent life forms developing on other planets might be quite different from us. The question, as far as we on Earth are concerned, is what such beings might look like if they chose to visited us. This, I contend, drastically reduces the likely variety of fundamental body plans we might expect to encounter. As I tried to show above, there are two aspects to this question. First, the aliens' inate capabilities and second, what their environment allows them to accomplish. It must be acknowledged here that there is an assumption underlying this issue, that such an alien would require an advanced technological capability to undertake interstellar travel. That said, I find it difficult to accept that a space faring civilisation could arise on any world irrespective of what the conditions are like on the planet. Thinking of worlds like Venus or Jupiter, it might be that they harbour life but it is difficult to see how complex technology could be developed under such demanding conditions. Even if the ability existed it might be constrained by the absence of suitable materials. And even if adequate minerals were available there might be no ready energy source to power industry. We here on Earth have been fortunate in having abundant supplies of fossil fuels to power our development. Other worlds may not be so lucky. So, just because life may be abundant in the universe, something as yet unproven, it doesn't mean that star hopping aliens will be equally as numerous. It could well be the case that the conditions existing on Earth represent what would be required of any world if it was to send forth voyagers to the four corners of the cosmos. If so, why cannot we assume that whatever forces shaped life on Earth would operate similarly on other, equally blessed, worlds, leading to similar outcomes? Intelligent aliens may indeed walk on two legs and guide their spacecraft with their hands.

ghostgeek: "A finite number of solutions exist for any physical problem. The laws of hydrodynamics, for example, govern efficient movement through water, and as a result dolphins, sharks and ichthyosaurs assumed the same shape, despite mammals, fish and reptiles having diverged many millions of years ago. This is termed convergent evolution. Similarly, humans and octopuses have eyes with the same basic architecture, because there are only so many ways to focus and detect light.

Life elsewhere might be based on a different set of 20 amino acids to that on Earth, but we don't know that, so we can only use our experience. The number of ways DNA can be mixed to produce different viable lifeforms is huge, but it is finite. What if the only solutions to the problem of producing an organism capable of interstellar communication were in the DNA combinations resulting in bilateral symmetry, four limbs, opposable thumbs and brains more proficient than is required for the health and reproduction of the species? We could extend that list, but you get the picture."

[ Duncan Steel, Monday 9 August 2004, The Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/comment/story/0,,1278934,00.html ]

ghostgeek: "In his book Wonderful Life, Stephen Jay Gould argues that if the tape of life were re-wound and played back, life would have taken a very different course. Simon Conway Morris disputes this conclusion, arguing that convergence is a dominant force in evolution, and given that the same environmental and physical constraints are at work, life will inevitably evolve toward an "optimum" body plan, and at some point, evolution is bound to stumble upon intelligence, a trait presently identified with at least primates, corvids, and cetaceans."

[ en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Convergent_evolution&oldid=612926066 ]

ghostgeek:

ghostgeek:

lori100: “If there’s life on other planets, then the earth is the Universe’s insane asylum.”
― Voltaire

ghostgeek: An interesting thought Lori. Maybe the aliens have got more common sense than we think and have decided to stay well clear of us.

lori100: I'm leaning towards what the aliens and other non-humans have told people---some when out of body---------they say the Earth is a 'prison planet', and that humans have been quarantined until they become more civilized....

ghostgeek: Well, God help those aliens when we break out of jail. They'll be turned into burger filling before you can say Jack Robin.